Fuel Pump Relay

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kmg4real
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Fuel Pump Relay

Post by kmg4real » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:31 pm

I know this has been discussed in many post, yet there hasn't been anyone posting a pic of the above said. Please if you're so kind to take a pic of both the relays behind the fuse panel of a Velociti and post it. I know one is for the fuel pump. This will be of great help to many.
'02 CITI Golf 2l 16VT 243hp 306Nm @0.8 bar on M.R.D. Dyno - codename: [url=http://www.vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic ... BlaqSmithe[/url]
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by MacMan » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:23 pm

kmg4real wrote:I know this has been discussed in many post, yet there hasn't been anyone posting a pic of the above said. Please if you're so kind to take a pic of both the relays behind the fuse panel of a Velociti and post it. I know one is for the fuel pump. This will be of great help to many.
They are normal 12v, 40Amp, 4-pin relays?

What would you like to see?
'06 UG Golf MKV GTi - 208Hp / 322Nm @ KAR (DP + Intake)
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by kmg4real » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:30 am

MacMan wrote:
What would you like to see?
What it looks like, where it is located. and maybe a small explanation of the pins. Shaun, these questions always pops up and I did a search and went through about 8 pages with repeating info, so clearly there's still others who are esperiencing problems wrt this. People don't usually understand the same way, photos always assist to actually see what is being refered to. My apologies if I'm being a neusense. We can maybe make it a sticky :roll:
'02 CITI Golf 2l 16VT 243hp 306Nm @0.8 bar on M.R.D. Dyno - codename: [url=http://www.vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic ... BlaqSmithe[/url]
'98 BMW 323i

Ex - '98 Polo Playa 1.6i
Ex - '11 BMW 320d
Ex - '08 BMW 320i Facelift
Ex - '07 Citroen C2 iPlay
Ex - '07 Golf V GTI
Ex - '04 Audi 1.9TDi 6 spd
Ex - '02 CITI Golf 1.4i
FACT: "I use not only the brains I have, but all that I can Borrow." - Einstein
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by MacMan » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:31 am

kmg4real wrote:
MacMan wrote:
What would you like to see?
What it looks like, where it is located. and maybe a small explanation of the pins. Shaun, these questions always pops up and I did a search and went through about 8 pages with repeating info, so clearly there's still others who are esperiencing problems wrt this. People don't usually understand the same way, photos always assist to actually see what is being refered to. My apologies if I'm being a neusense. We can maybe make it a sticky :roll:
No problem, I was just wondering what kind of information you were looking for. I will see if I have a picture of them somewhere.

I need to go to a client now, but I will draw a little diagram when I get back.
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| DIY+ | S3 short shift | Flowtech DP | ITG Maxogen | REVO2 | Autotech HPFP | RCD 510 | H&R |

Ex:
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'99 Citi Golf 2.0i

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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by kmg4real » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:41 am

Thanks Shaun, as always you are a Star :D
'02 CITI Golf 2l 16VT 243hp 306Nm @0.8 bar on M.R.D. Dyno - codename: [url=http://www.vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic ... BlaqSmithe[/url]
'98 BMW 323i

Ex - '98 Polo Playa 1.6i
Ex - '11 BMW 320d
Ex - '08 BMW 320i Facelift
Ex - '07 Citroen C2 iPlay
Ex - '07 Golf V GTI
Ex - '04 Audi 1.9TDi 6 spd
Ex - '02 CITI Golf 1.4i
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by MacMan » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:44 pm

Ok, excuse my MS Paint skillz, but you get the idea. :lol:

Image


For those that don't know what a relay is, it is basically an electrically operated switch that can handle a large amount of current, which makes it perfect for controlling things like fuel pumps and headlights.

In the typical operation of a relay, pin 86 is connected to ground (earth), pin 85 is connected to switched +12V (eg. from a headlight switch or ignition switch, etc), pin 30 is connected to permanent +12V (eg. directly from the battery) and pin 87 is connected to the + (positive) wire of the device you want to switch on (fuel pump, headlights, etc.). Then how it works is you turn the switch, which sends +12V to pin 85 on the relay, which excites the coil inside the relay, which closes the switch inside the relay, which joins pin 30 and pin 87 on the relay, which sends +12V from the battery to the fuel pump or headlights, which switches them on.


In the case of the fuel pump relay on an MP9 equipped car, the relay is connected and is operated slightly differently. Pin 86 is connected to pin 25 on the MP9 ECU, pin 85 is connected to permament +12V (eg. directly from the battery), pin 30 is connected to permament +12V (eg. directly from the battery) and pin 87 is connected to the + (positive) wire of the device you want to switch on (fuel pump, headlights, etc.). Then how it works is when you turn the ignition on, the ECU joins pin 25 to ground (earth), which means pin 86 on the relay is now grounded, which means the coil in the relay can now be excited, which closes the switch inside the relay, which joins pin 30 and pin 87 on the relay, which sends +12V from the battery to the fuel pump or headlights, which switches them on.


I hope that helps. :)
'06 UG Golf MKV GTi - 208Hp / 322Nm @ KAR (DP + Intake)
| DIY+ | S3 short shift | Flowtech DP | ITG Maxogen | REVO2 | Autotech HPFP | RCD 510 | H&R |

Ex:
'04 Golf MKIV GTi.:R
'99 Citi Golf 2.0i

Patience is the ability to idle your motor when you feel like stripping your gears.
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by kmg4real » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:02 pm

It certainly helps. :D Thanks a mil Shaun.

Administrators, can we stick this?
'02 CITI Golf 2l 16VT 243hp 306Nm @0.8 bar on M.R.D. Dyno - codename: [url=http://www.vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic ... BlaqSmithe[/url]
'98 BMW 323i

Ex - '98 Polo Playa 1.6i
Ex - '11 BMW 320d
Ex - '08 BMW 320i Facelift
Ex - '07 Citroen C2 iPlay
Ex - '07 Golf V GTI
Ex - '04 Audi 1.9TDi 6 spd
Ex - '02 CITI Golf 1.4i
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by Grantm » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:25 am

They are normal 12v, 40Amp, 4-pin relays?

Hi Macman,is this a universal fitting type and will they work in all cars that require a fuelpump relay ?
thanks
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by MacMan » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:33 am

Grantm wrote:They are normal 12v, 40Amp, 4-pin relays?

Hi Macman,is this a universal fitting type and will they work in all cars that require a fuelpump relay ?
thanks
The 4-pin relay in the diagram is one of the most common ones used in motor vehicles (well the ones I have worked on anyway), so yes I would say it is universal. But obviously you get relays that have the pins in different locations to fit different relay plugs, but they will still function the same way.

Yes the above relay can be used in any car that requires a fuel pump relay.
'06 UG Golf MKV GTi - 208Hp / 322Nm @ KAR (DP + Intake)
| DIY+ | S3 short shift | Flowtech DP | ITG Maxogen | REVO2 | Autotech HPFP | RCD 510 | H&R |

Ex:
'04 Golf MKIV GTi.:R
'99 Citi Golf 2.0i

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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by Grantm » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:44 am

Thanks for that reply Macman
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by UDC » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:45 am

wont it be better to run pin 86 off the low pressure oil switch, so that the pumps cuts off when the engine cuts off in the case of a accident etc. Or is there another way around this?
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by MacMan » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:14 pm

UDC wrote:wont it be better to run pin 86 off the low pressure oil switch, so that the pumps cuts off when the engine cuts off in the case of a accident etc. Or is there another way around this?
No I wouldn't connect it to the low pressure oil sensor. The MP9 ECU will stop the fuel pump if the engine stops running and I am sure other management systems will do the same.
'06 UG Golf MKV GTi - 208Hp / 322Nm @ KAR (DP + Intake)
| DIY+ | S3 short shift | Flowtech DP | ITG Maxogen | REVO2 | Autotech HPFP | RCD 510 | H&R |

Ex:
'04 Golf MKIV GTi.:R
'99 Citi Golf 2.0i

Patience is the ability to idle your motor when you feel like stripping your gears.
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by UDC » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:29 pm

MacMan wrote:
UDC wrote:wont it be better to run pin 86 off the low pressure oil switch, so that the pumps cuts off when the engine cuts off in the case of a accident etc. Or is there another way around this?
No I wouldn't connect it to the low pressure oil sensor. The MP9 ECU will stop the fuel pump if the engine stops running and I am sure other management systems will do the same.
thanks for clearing that up 8) , atleast now I know what to do about the fuel pump wiring on my mkII.
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by Golfantix » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:54 am

MacMan wrote:
UDC wrote:wont it be better to run pin 86 off the low pressure oil switch, so that the pumps cuts off when the engine cuts off in the case of a accident etc. Or is there another way around this?
No I wouldn't connect it to the low pressure oil sensor. The MP9 ECU will stop the fuel pump if the engine stops running and I am sure other management systems will do the same.
I've got a little problem, the car in question is a mk2 GTi 1989 8v model. The stock FP relay is marked 62 on top, part number 321-906-059-G. Lately started acting up, sometimes the car refuse to start until you remove and refit the relay and its getting hot from time to time. I have cleaned the terminals of the relay and the holder but no change.

No here is the problem, its a 5 pin relay, 4 normal sized terminals and 1 half size terminal. So i went to GW for a new relay and they gave me a normal 4-pin, after a long discussion we found one with a similar pin lay-out (mk3 FP relay) but the car won't start and when you turn the key to acc the rev counter indicates max rpm. After some research on the www i figured out that the FP relay also controls the rev limiter on CIS models and that this little bugger costs 50us$.

Now i need some help, unfortunately my electronic skills dropped me here, i want to make up a relay harness with a normal relay that switches on when you 'crank' the motor but switches the pump off if the motor is not running. is this possible??

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by whitedelight » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:54 pm

The 5 pin relay is for a MP9 setup as far as i know.I used a 4 pin Hella relay (actually two of them)with my Gotech setup.
Only place I could source them was from Mercedes here in CT.
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Re: Fuel Pump Relay

Post by VeloCiti » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:11 pm

Hi guys,

I know this probably shouldnt be posted here but I am hoping someone can help me.

I have a 2005 Velociti 1.6i

The problem started sometime yesterday (I havent been fiddling with the car - did a minor service a few days ago)

If I switch on the headlamps when driving or idling the car is fine. As soon as I pull the stalk to activate the inner spots the car switches off or the voltage dips really badly. This resets my clock, trip kms, and radio.

I tried starting up the car with the headlamps switched off ... took out the + terminal on the battery and the car was fine (apparently its an alternator test of sorts)

Now someone mentioned to me that this could be a relay problem, problem with the battery, or the alternator.

If its a relay problem can someone shed light on what relay I should get and how I can change it
Drive it like you stole it !

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