Pops and bang mods

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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by PoloB » Mon May 13, 2019 1:00 pm

A waste of money and irritating as Julius Malema if you ask me.

I cannot imagine how this can sound cool to anyone.To me is sound KAK!!!
Where are the days the sound of a dump valve and turbo spooling was cool and that's what everyone was going for, that at least sounded cool and was not ear deafening or as irritating as the PAPAPAPAPPPPPAAPAAPAPAPAPAAAPAPAPAP
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Sebz » Mon May 13, 2019 1:10 pm

THANAS wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 2:39 pm
This seems to be quite the dramatic topic.

Having personally tuned overrun burbles/pops and bangs/exhaust crackles into pretty much most of the VAG platforms that can support them, I have experienced every part of the 'pops and bangs' spectrum. I think people have the idea that it's an on-off switch, either you have it set at an incredibly annoying level or not at all. Which is not true, adjusting the level to which the timing goes ATDC on overrun as well whether you choose to disable fuel cut entirely (which I don't) or momentarily, determines the intensity of it. I, as well as many OEMs, have found there to be appeal in the sound of some crackles and burbles on lift off or downshift. JCW Mini / Hyundai i30 N / RS7 etc. In many modern 'performance' ECUs, like the SIMOS18 for example, there is a specific ignition mapping component that is aimed at exactly that.

It is labelled as 'impulse combustion', and fade-in and fade-out times, as well the degree of atdc timing can all be set without imposing those values on the generally used timing tables. It can be set according to the driving mode as well, and whether exhaust flaps are open or closed.

Does it damage the turbo? Well you have to consider the mechanism by which impulse combustion (pops and bangs) occurs. Does it raise the EGTs? yes it does, as it allows for late combustion, which means more heat and kinetic energy is inside the cylinders when the exhaust valves open. However the amount by which it raises EGTs on any normal application is not anywhere near the level at which exhaust valves or turbine wheels are damaged (yes, I've logged EGT values during overrun). The actual kinetic energy released is also marginal and the impact of the impulses is, again, not at a level that would cause damage. As mentioned by others before, it is not to be confused with Antilag/Ignition Cut Limiter/Ignition Cut launch control, which are violent and definitely cause damage to systems not designed for it. Around 3 years on from one of the most extreme examples of Pops and Bangs that I've personally tuned, the exhaust valves and turbine wheel are still very much in the same condition. In fact, poor tuning in general, i.t.o EGT management under boost/Surge/Overspeeding of the turbo is far, far more likely to cause damage than impulse combustion. So to say "It damages the turbo" as a blanket statement, when the turbo is subjected to far more punishing conditions under normal operation, is just silly.

With regards to the comment about tuners not caring and just wanting to sell maps. I can't speak for every tuner, but I add it to my own vehicles, at an intensity level of my liking. If I thought it would cause damage, or any of the tests i've done or my experience with it, showed that it caused specific damage under 'normal' use, I wouldn't add it to my own car or to anyone elses.

If you go somewhere that has no sense of mechanical sympathy and completely overdoes it and then you sit revving your car for 30 minutes to hear the pops and bangs, or cruise down the high way in constant over-run shooting flames out of the exhaust, with no fuel cut and 50 degree ATDC timing, that is an abuse of the application, not the norm.
I was hoping that someone who tunes these sorts of crackle maps into cars would comment, so that both sides of the story could be heard. I, for one, am happy to hear that you have done your homework and have logged the EGT's. You are also honest about the fact that EGT's are obviously higher, instead of broadly and defensively saying that crackle maps as a whole are all okay. Reading your technical insights is always refreshing and enjoyable, and it's great to hear that you wouldn't tune these sounds in if you saw damage to mechanical parts.

I personally cannot lie that I do enjoy a burble on the downshift or overrun. I do not like the continual popping and banging that sounds like machine gun fire, and that is just my opinion. The fact that you do not tune in the most intense crackles you can is nice for someone like me.

I sense some shade from some people who think that because some have done some internet research, those people are automatically misinformed. I concede that many manufacturers do tune in these kinds of sounds on their cars, as mentioned previously, which means that they have built the car to handle it through months and months of R&D. Yet even a Lamborghini Aventador / Audi RS7 etc won't have a ridiculously loud crackle at all times of being off the throttle. Having a burble tuned into lower gears sounds like a nice compromise.

Basically, if it is done safely and is proven to cause no damage - cool, let's just not make it so annoyingly omnipresent that old ladies feel the need to call the cops thinking that WW3 has started. Of course, that is my personal feeling on the matter, and not everyone will agree. I personally don't want such a map at this point in my life, but feelings change - especially with more information, and I don't think the OP intended to draw a line in the sand with people only having one view on the matter or the other.

Anyway, once again I must say Thank you for your insight Mike, it was an enjoyable read.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by ICE King » Mon May 13, 2019 5:05 pm

TO ADD - This is where Mike's magic works , His able to align a map to keep within the limits of the hardware that are on the car at the time.

whereas , A "loader" will flash his "Stage 1" tune and off you , EGT's will be through the roof and in-turn Turbo and valve train parts will suffer prematurely.

By installing a Downpipe for example , EGT's will lower and means you can give a bit more in the tune

Here's a perfect example , Peter buys a Golf 7 GTI and takes it to loader X , loader X loads a "Stage 1" map ,EGT's shoots up, fueling runs lean and few months later car breaks , Loader X wonders why the car broke and tells you that you have a Wednesday car

then Paparazzi blames "Pops & bangs" and labels every tuner

Long story short , MAPS flashed that are not within the limits of the hardware on the car at the time , Break's it.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by 1.8 20vT » Tue May 14, 2019 9:41 am

I have been running a very "low scale" pops and bang file from Thanas for about 2 years now. No issues what so ever.

That said there is enough of cars that you hear popping and banging more than Durban at Diwali time. That is stupid overkill IMO
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Howie-WP » Tue May 14, 2019 12:47 pm

1.8 20vT wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:41 am
That said there is enough of cars that you hear popping and banging more than Durban at Diwali time. That is stupid overkill IMO
Classic, too much of a good thing..........

I am all for noise (Wookie makes some) but this racket gets tiresome, the second time you come flying down the road with your best "look at me" look is already kinda old :crazy: :fear:
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Hoosier Daddy » Wed May 15, 2019 3:59 pm

Howie-WP wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:47 pm
1.8 20vT wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:41 am
That said there is enough of cars that you hear popping and banging more than Durban at Diwali time. That is stupid overkill IMO
Classic, too much of a good thing..........

I am all for noise (Wookie makes some) but this racket gets tiresome, the second time you come flying down the road with your best "look at me" look is already kinda old :crazy: :fear:
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Silver Srfer » Thu May 16, 2019 10:02 am

Thanas Pops & Bangs FTW :hurray:
I opted for a touch on the pedal to "activate" the popping. I absolutely love it :cool:

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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Pik Sooter » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:46 am

Guy down the road from me has a Pops and Bangs map on his Golf 7 R, he drives respectfully most of the time, although likes to hoon it every now and then and the pops and bangs are **** loud. Then another D**S up the road has a built M4 with what must be a 100mm exhaust with this pops and bangs and HE drives like an utter D**S.. Every Saturday morning, every Saturday Afternoon, every Sunday morning etc gives it the beans all around the neighborhood, you can still hear the thing 4k's away, drives all the dogs crazy in the neighborhood so it's a bark fest for 10 minutes after the assholes left... I was always so scared my neighbors would complain about my Jetta with a straight pipe starting up @ 5AM every now and then... Until "Pops and Bangs" happened..
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Hoosier Daddy » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:06 am

Pik Sooter wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:46 am
Guy down the road from me has a Pops and Bangs map on his Golf 7 R, he drives respectfully most of the time, although likes to hoon it every now and then and the pops and bangs are **** loud. Then another D**S up the road has a built M4 with what must be a 100mm exhaust with this pops and bangs and HE drives like an utter D**S.. Every Saturday morning, every Saturday Afternoon, every Sunday morning etc gives it the beans all around the neighborhood, you can still hear the thing 4k's away, drives all the dogs crazy in the neighborhood so it's a bark fest for 10 minutes after the assholes left... I was always so scared my neighbors would complain about my Jetta with a straight pipe starting up @ 5AM every now and then... Until "Pops and Bangs" happened..
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by dcmk4 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:36 am

Pik Sooter wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:46 am
Guy down the road from me has a straight pipe on his Golf 7 R, he drives respectfully most of the time, although likes to hoon it every now and then and the straight pipes are **** loud. Then another D**S up the road has a built M4 with what must be a 100mm exhaust with these straight pipes and HE drives like an utter D**S.. Every Saturday morning, every Saturday Afternoon, every Sunday morning etc gives it the beans all around the neighborhood, you can still hear the thing 4k's away, drives all the dogs crazy in the neighborhood so it's a bark fest for 10 minutes after the assholes left... I was always so scared my neighbors would complain about my Jetta with a pops and bangs starting up @ 5AM every now and then... Until "straight piped" happened..
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by THANAS » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:49 am

dcmk4 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:36 am
Pik Sooter wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:46 am
Guy down the road from me has a straight pipe on his Golf 7 R, he drives respectfully most of the time, although likes to hoon it every now and then and the straight pipes are **** loud. Then another D**S up the road has a built M4 with what must be a 100mm exhaust with these straight pipes and HE drives like an utter D**S.. Every Saturday morning, every Saturday Afternoon, every Sunday morning etc gives it the beans all around the neighborhood, you can still hear the thing 4k's away, drives all the dogs crazy in the neighborhood so it's a bark fest for 10 minutes after the assholes left... I was always so scared my neighbors would complain about my Jetta with a pops and bangs starting up @ 5AM every now and then... Until "straight piped" happened..
Damn suhn :violin:
Pot/Kettle situation.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Pik Sooter » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:32 pm

THANAS wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:49 am
dcmk4 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:36 am
Pik Sooter wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:46 am
Guy down the road from me has a straight pipe on his Golf 7 R, he drives respectfully most of the time, although likes to hoon it every now and then and the straight pipes are **** loud. Then another D**S up the road has a built M4 with what must be a 100mm exhaust with these straight pipes and HE drives like an utter D**S.. Every Saturday morning, every Saturday Afternoon, every Sunday morning etc gives it the beans all around the neighborhood, you can still hear the thing 4k's away, drives all the dogs crazy in the neighborhood so it's a bark fest for 10 minutes after the assholes left... I was always so scared my neighbors would complain about my Jetta with a pops and bangs starting up @ 5AM every now and then... Until "straight piped" happened..
Damn suhn :violin:
Pot/Kettle situation.
The Jet was quiet compared to these things.. Damn. LOL
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by MarshallGTi » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:36 pm

Pik Sooter wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:46 am
Guy down the road from me has a Pops and Bangs map on his Golf 7 R, he drives respectfully most of the time, although likes to hoon it every now and then and the pops and bangs are **** loud. Then another D**S up the road has a built M4 with what must be a 100mm exhaust with this pops and bangs and HE drives like an utter D**S.. Every Saturday morning, every Saturday Afternoon, every Sunday morning etc gives it the beans all around the neighborhood, you can still hear the thing 4k's away, drives all the dogs crazy in the neighborhood so it's a bark fest for 10 minutes after the assholes left... I was always so scared my neighbors would complain about my Jetta with a straight pipe starting up @ 5AM every now and then... Until "Pops and Bangs" happened..
if i'm not mistaken, you don't stay too far from me, so you must have also heard that BT 135i. Dude lives in my road and and only knows how to drive flat-out, regardless of it being a neighbourhood with schools and kids walking, and his pops/bangs are way too excessive, especially when he does burnouts right outside his house after a night at the drags.
It is an ingenius solution to a problem that should have never existed in the 1st place...

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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by PoLonY » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:33 pm

There’s a volvo s40 t5 in my area with this, but an annoyingly over bearing loud and active pops and bangs, can hear it across the dam and surroundings as he drives

The multiple gunshot style, just sounds horrendous

I love a good burble on overrun but it needs to sound like it’s natural, like the exhaust tone is complimenting the burbles

Anything more is just flat out annoying especially when it’s

Bwaaaaaap bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang

Bwaap bang bwaap Bang bang

And the guy is just leaving his driveway


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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by GB9 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:41 am

PoLonY wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:33 pm
I love a good burble on overrun but it needs to sound like it’s natural, like the exhaust tone is complimenting the burbles
This.

That old R8 advert (where it's on the dyno) is the perfect example of the type of burble matching the exhaust tone. Burble over pops and bangs all day.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Pik Sooter » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:28 am

MarshallGTi wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:36 pm
Pik Sooter wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:46 am
Guy down the road from me has a Pops and Bangs map on his Golf 7 R, he drives respectfully most of the time, although likes to hoon it every now and then and the pops and bangs are **** loud. Then another D**S up the road has a built M4 with what must be a 100mm exhaust with this pops and bangs and HE drives like an utter D**S.. Every Saturday morning, every Saturday Afternoon, every Sunday morning etc gives it the beans all around the neighborhood, you can still hear the thing 4k's away, drives all the dogs crazy in the neighborhood so it's a bark fest for 10 minutes after the assholes left... I was always so scared my neighbors would complain about my Jetta with a straight pipe starting up @ 5AM every now and then... Until "Pops and Bangs" happened..
if i'm not mistaken, you don't stay too far from me, so you must have also heard that BT 135i. Dude lives in my road and and only knows how to drive flat-out, regardless of it being a neighbourhood with schools and kids walking, and his pops/bangs are way too excessive, especially when he does burnouts right outside his house after a night at the drags.
I stay very close to Dylan (hubbly), about 1.5K's. Yeah, heard him as well, not so much as the guy in the M4 (white M4 with a **** ton of stickers etc). There's another guy around with a green box shape Corolla with a Lexux V8. It has the over run burbles and sounds soooo schweet. These other guys mentioned above must have their heads read seriously.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Sebz » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:04 am

MarshallGTi wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:36 pm
Pik Sooter wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:46 am
Guy down the road from me has a Pops and Bangs map on his Golf 7 R, he drives respectfully most of the time, although likes to hoon it every now and then and the pops and bangs are **** loud. Then another D**S up the road has a built M4 with what must be a 100mm exhaust with this pops and bangs and HE drives like an utter D**S.. Every Saturday morning, every Saturday Afternoon, every Sunday morning etc gives it the beans all around the neighborhood, you can still hear the thing 4k's away, drives all the dogs crazy in the neighborhood so it's a bark fest for 10 minutes after the assholes left... I was always so scared my neighbors would complain about my Jetta with a straight pipe starting up @ 5AM every now and then... Until "Pops and Bangs" happened..
if i'm not mistaken, you don't stay too far from me, so you must have also heard that BT 135i. Dude lives in my road and and only knows how to drive flat-out, regardless of it being a neighbourhood with schools and kids walking, and his pops/bangs are way too excessive, especially when he does burnouts right outside his house after a night at the drags.
The infamous Daniel Teixeira. Definitely way too loud on his pops and bangs - I don't see how that's enjoyable. Especially when you have a sweet 6-cylinder to listen to
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