ABF Turbo with cams?

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ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Von 2e » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:19 pm

Good day all. I apologize if this was brought up before but can anyone help me with some knowledge. I have a ABF Turbo full spec in proses and would like to know if it's worth getting cams done with a high rev kit?

I know cams with bad overlap interfere with boost but Van Der Linde say they install turbo spec cams?

And secondly is a high rev kit in a 16v worth it?

Thanks for any info

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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by PapaJo » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:45 pm

High rev kit if you want to rev way above 7200. Up to 7400 on std valve springs is still fine.

Find out the spec on the turbo cams. It is likely to be in the order of 262/268 duration with a bit if extra lift over the std cams and less valve.
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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Killerwatt » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:16 am

Well it depends. How much power do you want to make and what turbo are you using?
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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Von 2e » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:23 am

Killerwatt wrote:Well it depends. How much power do you want to make and what turbo are you using?
All of itImage.... Just joking... Im looking for the most i can get but atleast 300 wkw+... Planning on running gt35 maybe but added NOS to spool it up quicker

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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by PapaJo » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:11 pm

Hope you are upgrading the gearbox and rest of the drive train for the 300 wkw.
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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Von 2e » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:43 pm

PapaJo wrote:Hope you are upgrading the gearbox and rest of the drive train for the 300 wkw.
Yes have the 6 speed golf 5 gti cable shift in. Not sure if the rest will last but if it breaks then theres room for improvement Image

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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by panic-mechanic » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:38 am

Yes nice cams will always make a bit extra power. It should not make it too dead below if they don't have massive overlap.
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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Killerwatt » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:55 am

Agree. At the 300wkw mark you are nowhere near the max of a gt3582. That would probably be around the 1.2 bar mark. I would look at cams, valves and head closer to the 400wkw mark when you get closer to the limits of the turbo.
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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Von 2e » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:11 am

Thanks for the reply guys. Good to know im not way off. 400 kw is even beter and then my next question is will the 20v pistons hold the load or rather wossner pistons. I had a set of wossners in but melted all 4 on the sides. Can get a set of 20v pistons for free just a question. Image

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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Killerwatt » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:20 am

The 20v pistons are far weaker than the Wossners. Your damage looks like it resulted from a bad tune rather than bad pistons
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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Von 2e » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:28 am

Killerwatt wrote:The 20v pistons are far weaker than the Wossners. Your damage looks like it resulted from a bad tune rather than bad pistons
I believe so. The headgasket blew in between all the cylinders. My guess is it through fuel over to the next cylinder back and forth and that influenced the burn and mixture? Correct me if i could be wrong

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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by panic-mechanic » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:49 am

That is either detonation or lean and the make of piston will have no affect in that case. You will melt a forged expensive piston just as easily as a OE one. Tuning tuning tuning....
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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Von 2e » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:06 am

panic-mechanic wrote:That is either detonation or lean and the make of piston will have no affect in that case. You will melt a forged expensive piston just as easily as a OE one. Tuning tuning tuning....
Thanks for the info... Will see when im done where to take it for tuning. As where I am there arent many people who does tuning.

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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Von 2e » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:27 pm

Good day. Does anyone know how good Iasa forged pistons are?

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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Unobeat » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:29 am

Von 2e wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:06 am
panic-mechanic wrote:That is either detonation or lean and the make of piston will have no affect in that case. You will melt a forged expensive piston just as easily as a OE one. Tuning tuning tuning....
Thanks for the info... Will see when im done where to take it for tuning. As where I am there arent many people who does tuning.

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Sounds like you building a monster, a rides thread would be appreciated to see the progress of the build.
Where you located so that guys can point you to where you can take it for tuning.
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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by missioner » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:30 pm

Von 2e wrote:Thanks for the reply guys. Good to know im not way off. 400 kw is even beter and then my next question is will the 20v pistons hold the load or rather wossner pistons. I had a set of wossners in but melted all 4 on the sides. Can get a set of 20v pistons for free just a question. Image

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That motor definately ran lean.

Make sure you have enough fuel to go with that boost. Get an AFR gauge.

20V pistons might hold 300 if the rest is properly done, like Panic said any piston will melt in an poorly tuned motor.

Likely causes are that you are running out of fuel pump or injectors. Lean motors run hot, heat causes detonation, heat and detonation melt pistons.
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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Von 2e » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:13 am

missioner wrote:
Von 2e wrote:Thanks for the reply guys. Good to know im not way off. 400 kw is even beter and then my next question is will the 20v pistons hold the load or rather wossner pistons. I had a set of wossners in but melted all 4 on the sides. Can get a set of 20v pistons for free just a question. Image

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That motor definately ran lean.

Make sure you have enough fuel to go with that boost. Get an AFR gauge.

20V pistons might hold 300 if the rest is properly done, like Panic said any piston will melt in an poorly tuned motor.

Likely causes are that you are running out of fuel pump or injectors. Lean motors run hot, heat causes detonation, heat and detonation melt pistons.
Thanks Missioner for the help... My tuner said the fuel pressure stayed constant on the fuel regulator while dynoing the car. And had the injectors tested before applying them. Could it be that his tuning was of?

Long storie short.
Had the car built
They had it tuned
Got car back raced 1 event
Got some issues
Fixed but smoked alot
Took in to different tuner
He sorted a few things externally
Tuned again
Raced one night
Stopped at home car sound funny
Tested compression
Saw it was way of
Decided to DIY

Could it be from first tuner or second?

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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by missioner » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:40 am

Von 2e wrote:
missioner wrote:
Von 2e wrote:Thanks for the reply guys. Good to know im not way off. 400 kw is even beter and then my next question is will the 20v pistons hold the load or rather wossner pistons. I had a set of wossners in but melted all 4 on the sides. Can get a set of 20v pistons for free just a question. Image

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That motor definately ran lean.

Make sure you have enough fuel to go with that boost. Get an AFR gauge.

20V pistons might hold 300 if the rest is properly done, like Panic said any piston will melt in an poorly tuned motor.

Likely causes are that you are running out of fuel pump or injectors. Lean motors run hot, heat causes detonation, heat and detonation melt pistons.
Thanks Missioner for the help... My tuner said the fuel pressure stayed constant on the fuel regulator while dynoing the car. And had the injectors tested before applying them. Could it be that his tuning was of?

Long storie short.
Had the car built
They had it tuned
Got car back raced 1 event
Got some issues
Fixed but smoked alot
Took in to different tuner
He sorted a few things externally
Tuned again
Raced one night
Stopped at home car sound funny
Tested compression
Saw it was way of
Decided to DIY

Could it be from first tuner or second?

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Without having a look at your car, the tune, the real time values (this requires a running car) its difficult to determine the actual causes of the failure.

If you are in Gauteng I would highly recommend going to see Panic Mechanic.

Lean turbo engines are caused by three things, insufficient fuel, bad tuning and fiddlers.

The first is because either the fuel pump cannot flow enough fuel as in it cannot keep up with the needs of the engine. This can also be caused by injectors that are too small for the application. Either way it means the boost must be turned down until more fuel can be put into the engine.
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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Von 2e » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:32 am

Image Good morning. Could someone please give me some advice on this head will it still be usable if sent to vanderlinde or should i get a new one? In between 2 and 3 a groove blown through roughly maybe 1 mm and chamber melted inImage

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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by panic-mechanic » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:02 pm

specifically what do you want vanderlinde to do with / to it? Yes can be welded /skimmed. No issue. Most engineering shops can sort that.
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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by Von 2e » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:27 pm

panic-mechanic wrote:specifically what do you want vanderlinde to do with / to it? Yes can be welded /skimmed. No issue. Most engineering shops can sort that.
Thanks got a quote to do the whole head turbo spec al bells and whistles but wasnt sure if the damage was to severe until today. Took it through to jhb to a friend to take it in this week just wanted to know if it was worth the trip

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Re: ABF Turbo with cams?

Post by PapaJo » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:19 am

That's some serious burns you have there on the head. How long did you run it after tune?

Lucky all bells and whistles are getting done to the head as it seems to be blown through in the top of the picture to the other cylinder too or was close to blowing through.

Was the correct torque sequence and procedure used when head was torqued down, not that I think it would have helped not melting pistons.
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