Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post Reply
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Mon May 01, 2017 8:29 pm

Hi guys hope you all doing well!
I want to upgrade on my caddy's 2l 8v bottom end. Stil stock standard at this stage. I heard some one saying 2.3 caravelle pistons wil make a huge differance but not sure if it is the right way to go. Any guidens would be highly appriciated. Running on 282 estas cam with dicktator management and the std bottom now. Keep in mind it is my daily driver.
Thanks in advance!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
User avatar
chucker02
Captain
Posts: 2660
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:45 pm
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Citi ADY
Location: Bloemfontein

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by chucker02 » Mon May 01, 2017 8:56 pm

Build a 2.1 with a tdi crank, heard that it makes the most difference and adds alot of torque.
Current:

2003 Audi A3 1.8t

Ex:

2007 Citi golf. ADY with Spitronics 60-2, Brospeed 4-2-1 branch, Poly mounts and coilies. CCBB Limited edition

Rides Thread: http://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=183329

2002 Citi golf. ADY engine with GW carb, Viper 4-2-1 branch, 282 estas cam, 57mm freeflow, GW delarey big brake kit and GW delarey gearbox mounting.

Rides thread: http://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=157603

1971 VW beetle, my first love
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Mon May 01, 2017 9:04 pm

chucker02 wrote:Build a 2.1 with a tdi crank, heard that it makes the most difference and adds alot of torque.
So I need the 1.9 tdi crank for that and whet pistons do I need?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
User avatar
PapaJo
Lieutenant-Colonel
Posts: 4415
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:01 pm
Car Make: VW
Car Model: '16 Golf 7R, 86 Caddy 16V ITBs
Membership No: missing
Location: Vaal Triangle SA or Vitoria Brazil

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by PapaJo » Mon May 01, 2017 9:46 pm

The std 2l bottom end is strong enough if you want 2l.

Focus on the head to get more power. You did not state any orher mods to head apart from 282 estas cam. A port and flow with work done to the valves and branch would free up more ponies. If you decide to skim the head to increase compression, don't skim morr than 0.5 mm from std or you may need to add fuel additives.

Other than that, chucker02 has said you can go for a 2.1l motor and still need to do supporting mods to the head to get the most out of the motor and not just by fitting a cam.

Search around on the forum and you will find more info regarding such a conversion. CA18 nissan pistons are used, but only on 16v conversions as the 16v head has a larger combustion chamber. Afaik a bmw piston can be used for a 8v 2.1l conversion, but can't recall which one. Get in touch with Torker here on the forum or Sarel 8v performance. They should be able to give you the correct info.
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Tue May 02, 2017 10:32 am

PapaJo wrote:The std 2l bottom end is strong enough if you want 2l.

Focus on the head to get more power. You did not state any orher mods to head apart from 282 estas cam. A port and flow with work done to the valves and branch would free up more ponies. If you decide to skim the head to increase compression, don't skim morr than 0.5 mm from std or you may need to add fuel additives.

Other than that, chucker02 has said you can go for a 2.1l motor and still need to do supporting mods to the head to get the most out of the motor and not just by fitting a cam.

Search around on the forum and you will find more info regarding such a conversion. CA18 nissan pistons are used, but only on 16v conversions as the 16v head has a larger combustion chamber. Afaik a bmw piston can be used for a 8v 2.1l conversion, but can't recall which one. Get in touch with Torker here on the forum or Sarel 8v performance. They should be able to give you the correct info.
Thanks for the advice! I will do some home work and go from there.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Choc07
Cadet
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:33 pm
Car Make: Isuzu
Car Model: KB250 LE 2006
Location: benoni gauteng

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by Choc07 » Tue May 02, 2017 4:53 pm

chucker02 wrote:Build a 2.1 with a tdi crank, heard that it makes the most difference and adds alot of torque.
I've been looking at a bunch of different conversions lately and Apparently this mod eats bearings , but I'm by no means an expert just giving a heads up . :hug:
:crazy:
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Tue May 02, 2017 5:21 pm

I spoke to Nellis today and he has head which was done by Mike Dixon and from some of my connectons and was told it will be a wise choice to go for it. As far as the bottom end, it will be on hold for now.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Tue May 02, 2017 5:36 pm

I picked up another bugger-up today. When driving at 200km/h for about 50km the engin pushes a bit of oil out at the breather, is this normal on these 2l engins or where should I look for the cause?
I fitted new rings and big-ends and did propper honing on the sleeves. There was no ridge on the sleeves and drove gently for the first 1000km befor doing the dyno. Motor engineering did the head and messed it up so they gave me a 1.6 head which I had to reem the intake in order for the injectors not to squirt against the head. The valve stems was replaced but not the guids. Could this also cause the engin to breath as much?
Above all there is no problem with power or excelleration.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Tue May 02, 2017 5:40 pm

By the way! Thanks for all the advice and support so far, nice to get some honest opinions from guys with experience on these engins.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
User avatar
PapaJo
Lieutenant-Colonel
Posts: 4415
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:01 pm
Car Make: VW
Car Model: '16 Golf 7R, 86 Caddy 16V ITBs
Membership No: missing
Location: Vaal Triangle SA or Vitoria Brazil

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by PapaJo » Tue May 02, 2017 9:20 pm

When motor was assembled, did you install the plastic oil splash cover that fit over the cam below the tappet cover?

How is the breather on the block connected? Going to an oil catch tank with breather filter on?
User avatar
THANAS
Lieutenant-Colonel
Posts: 4393
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:51 am
Car Make: VW
Car Model: MkV Jetta TFSI Sportline
Membership No: 2035
Location: Cape Town

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by THANAS » Wed May 03, 2017 12:56 am

More importantly where do you live that you can do 200 kph for 50 kms?
__THANAS
__Image
__@thvnvs
__Daily:
__Jet-Li
__Project:
__BoostCreep
__ManilaMoo
__Ex Project:
__PikaPika
__20VTerror
__Rodney the BT Jetta 4
__CCBB ADY Citi
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Wed May 03, 2017 4:13 am

Northern cape postmasburg, no cops around except in December around Christmas. The bottom breather is blanked of and on top only the filter. Yes the splashplate in the top is in place! No oul catch tank fitted yet, howeve I did order one.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
HendrikCTI
Cadet
Posts: 746
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:36 am
Location: Bloemfontein

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by HendrikCTI » Wed May 03, 2017 10:18 am

The bottom breather is blanked of and on top only the filter
What happens if you unblock the bottom breather? Things are put there by the engineers for a reason.
My cars: 2004 Nissan Almera 1.6
1977 Datsun 1200GX
(100% FULLY restored, 13" mags fitted)
Ex car: 1994 Citi golf CTI
56mm Freeflow exhaust system.
Stock motor.
Wife's car: 2010 Chevrolet Spark 800cc
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Wed May 03, 2017 12:01 pm

It gets worse!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Wed May 03, 2017 12:02 pm

But below 5k rpm no problems! Only when driving at very high rpm for a period of time.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
HendrikCTI
Cadet
Posts: 746
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:36 am
Location: Bloemfontein

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by HendrikCTI » Wed May 03, 2017 12:28 pm

I'm no expert. Lets wait for the experts to comment but that sounds like a ring seal problem at high revs/high pressure.
How many km on the block?
My cars: 2004 Nissan Almera 1.6
1977 Datsun 1200GX
(100% FULLY restored, 13" mags fitted)
Ex car: 1994 Citi golf CTI
56mm Freeflow exhaust system.
Stock motor.
Wife's car: 2010 Chevrolet Spark 800cc
User avatar
vadia
Cadet
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:11 pm
Car Make: vw,nissan,merc
Car Model: mk1,np300,c200 amg,gti7
Location: randburg

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by vadia » Wed May 03, 2017 12:45 pm

hi when i cracked my no1 piston on my 1.8 afv block rebored 20thou it pissed oil out off both breathers and it was turbo charged
opel monza cd
ford xr3i
mazda 626 200i egi
ford bantam
vw beach buggy
vw mk1 2.0 8v turbo
User avatar
104bpm
Enlisted
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:14 pm
Car Make: VW
Car Model: '98 Golf 1
Location: Durban

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by 104bpm » Wed May 03, 2017 12:55 pm

THANAS wrote:More importantly where do you live that you can do 200 kph for 50 kms?
Lmao! :lol:
Image
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Wed May 03, 2017 12:58 pm

Not sure. Bought it with the block.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
User avatar
PapaJo
Lieutenant-Colonel
Posts: 4415
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:01 pm
Car Make: VW
Car Model: '16 Golf 7R, 86 Caddy 16V ITBs
Membership No: missing
Location: Vaal Triangle SA or Vitoria Brazil

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by PapaJo » Wed May 03, 2017 4:42 pm

corney wrote:Northern cape postmasburg, no cops around except in December around Christmas. The bottom breather is blanked of and on top only the filter. Yes the splashplate in the top is in place! No oul catch tank fitted yet, howeve I did order one.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Open that bottom breather. It is ther for a reason.
User avatar
PapaJo
Lieutenant-Colonel
Posts: 4415
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:01 pm
Car Make: VW
Car Model: '16 Golf 7R, 86 Caddy 16V ITBs
Membership No: missing
Location: Vaal Triangle SA or Vitoria Brazil

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by PapaJo » Thu May 11, 2017 8:10 pm

Any updates?
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Thu May 11, 2017 8:47 pm

Nope, decided to gather all the parts and then rebuild the whole engin from top to bottom. Rebore, cut crank, blueprint and get a head from Mike dixon. I believe that is the surest way to make sure it runs perfect.
Any sugestions on who does propper porting and flowing? I heard Mike Dixon does a great job on the vw heads. Don't want to make another mistake

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
User avatar
panic-mechanic
Panic's Place
Posts: 24892
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 9:08 am
Membership No: 79
Location: Benoni, putfontein.

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by panic-mechanic » Fri May 12, 2017 9:57 am

The breather is the only issue and yes all engines will breathe when you work them that hard. It is pretty normal.
Open the bottom breather, put it into a bottle and empty it out now and then.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'07 Audi S6 V10 - beast !!!!!
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'09 Audi Q5 3l tdi
'95 Audi 90 coupe quattro
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

Perfect Power dealer. I do dyno tuning.
corney
Enlisted
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Need some info on building a propper 2l bottom end

Post by corney » Fri May 12, 2017 10:03 am

Will try it and give you feedback on the results. Thanks for the advice!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Post Reply