ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

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ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Pieta » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:49 pm

Hi Guys and Gals,

So the ABF is coming on nicely, getting the gasket sets cambelt etc this weekend to get that done.

I have got 2 questions, 1 relating to the Dictator and 1 to the motor.

1. I bought a Dictator kit (60-2) yesterday and want to know if it would be necessary to run the TP100 as described in their wiring diagram? I have already removed the distributor as it was damaged on my import motor. I am getting the Opel 16v coil (3 pin) this weekend and I'm going to use the Crank wheel that is standard on the ABF. Now I see on the Dictator wiring diagram that there are 3 wires for the "Ignition" are those 3 wires for the coil's 3 pins or not?

2. I am cleaning the motor and fitting new gaskets, waterpump, cambelt etc. I took off the head to get new valve stems seals fitted, can I let the engineering scheem the head a little to raise the compression? I know its already something like 10.5:1 so if they scheem it a little bit, will the motor take it or am I going to hurt the motor?

I am aiming for 140bhp atw, don't know if its possible?

Any advice will be appreciated. :hi:
Pieter "Pieta" Oberholzer

97 - Polo Classic 1.6i MP9
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20V AGU - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=193644

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Fran » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:04 pm

It is called skimming a cylinder head :hi:

Don't go overboard with the compression ratio, otherwise the engine could ping/detonate. You could go up to 11:1 as far as I know to run with 95 octane.

140whp is certainly attainable at the reef. Management and flowed head as well as exhaust should get you in that region. Possibly very mild cams as well.
2000 Vw Citi ABF 2.1 16v, tdi crank, 84mm pistons, Dicktator - 115.5kW & 202 Nm at the wheels

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Pieta » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:11 pm

Thanks for the correct word. hehe.

The engineering shop here wants to take of 0.6mm, that sounds a bit overboard?
Pieter "Pieta" Oberholzer

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Torker » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:04 pm

Are you going wasted spark? How many towers on the coil? Does the coil come with built-in ignition modules like the MP9 coil? The 3 ignition outputs on the Dicktator carries the pulse to the coil so you will still need +VE and earth on the coil. On a 4 cylinder car running wasted spark you will use 2 of the ignition outputs.

Your diagram should look like this:

Image
Current rides:

VW Golf - 83 GT 2.1 16V 2-door with throttles
VW Golf - 78 LS 2.0 8V 4-door (2.1 ABF with throttles in progress)
VW Golf - '08 Citi Storm - 1.4 for now
Hyundai - 1.4 Getz (daily)

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Pieta » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:19 pm

Hi Torker,

I haven't bought the coil yet. I am going to buy it Saturday, its a 3 pin 2.0 16v Opel coil with 4 towers. My diagram does not look like that, but I can relate in a way. This is the first time I'm doing this so don't want to screw it up. I want to run TPS, because cams will be done in the near future. How do I find out if the coil has a built in module? The injector wires I have figured out in the diagram. Its just the coil that I'm unsure. Should I upload a pic of the diagram I have?
Pieter "Pieta" Oberholzer

97 - Polo Classic 1.6i MP9
- Bilstein + H&R
- 57mm Freeflow
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80.4hp /110NM @ Panic's Dyno

20V AGU - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=193644

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Torker » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:11 pm

Pieta wrote:Hi Torker,

I haven't bought the coil yet. I am going to buy it Saturday, its a 3 pin 2.0 16v Opel coil with 4 towers. My diagram does not look like that, but I can relate in a way. This is the first time I'm doing this so don't want to screw it up. I want to run TPS, because cams will be done in the near future. How do I find out if the coil has a built in module? The injector wires I have figured out in the diagram. Its just the coil that I'm unsure. Should I upload a pic of the diagram I have?


I don't know Opel coils but if it's got a built-in module you can wire the two triggers directly to the ignition outputs, if not, you need a 2-channel TP100 like in the diagram. If I read between the lines it looks as if the coilpack with the aluminium base contains a ignition module and the one without the base don't...
Current rides:

VW Golf - 83 GT 2.1 16V 2-door with throttles
VW Golf - 78 LS 2.0 8V 4-door (2.1 ABF with throttles in progress)
VW Golf - '08 Citi Storm - 1.4 for now
Hyundai - 1.4 Getz (daily)

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby PapaJo » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:51 pm

If you are referring to the Opel coil as shown in these pictures, you will need the ignition module (either TP100 or the Dicktator trigger module). TP100 module is a cheaper option. This Opel coil does not have an internal trigger module.
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z35 ... 25cc61.jpg
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z35 ... 4bf034.jpg

Wiring info for above:
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z35 ... 92048e.png

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby panic-mechanic » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:07 am

Some opel coils have a coil amp and some don't. The one with three pins generally don't. Then you nee two tp 100's
You also need to change the pickup to a magnetic in the motor. The original is a hall sender pickup. Gw part no 10703 fits and works perfectly.
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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Torker » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:11 am

If you need the TP100, Dicktator sells 1/2/3/4 channel modules, it will be easier to wire than 2 normal TP100's...
Current rides:

VW Golf - 83 GT 2.1 16V 2-door with throttles
VW Golf - 78 LS 2.0 8V 4-door (2.1 ABF with throttles in progress)
VW Golf - '08 Citi Storm - 1.4 for now
Hyundai - 1.4 Getz (daily)

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby panic-mechanic » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:14 am

Then he needs a 2 channel module. Must be their own design and then it should not be called a tp100 but simply a 2 channel coil amplifier. Tp100 is a specific part number which is really a vw single channel coil amplifier but you know that :-)
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'07 Audi S6 V10 - beast !!!!!
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'07 Audi A4 2l TDI
'95 Audi 90 coupe quattro
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Pieta » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:15 am

Ok so I haven't bought the coil yet I'm going through Saturday to GW de La Rey to pick up the last parts, is there another one you might advise me to take rather?

@ Panic,
So either way I need to change the sender the ABF came with? The one in the ABF has got 3 wires. If you advise me to take the GW part rather that will work for the Dictator I will do so.

Thanks for the help so far. I can't wait to get the motor in there and feel that power!
Pieter "Pieta" Oberholzer

97 - Polo Classic 1.6i MP9
- Bilstein + H&R
- 57mm Freeflow
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80.4hp /110NM @ Panic's Dyno

20V AGU - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=193644

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Pieta » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:17 am

Sorry for the question though, I am new to this "TP100" "modules" etc!!! LOL
Pieter "Pieta" Oberholzer

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- Bilstein + H&R
- 57mm Freeflow
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80.4hp /110NM @ Panic's Dyno

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Torker » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:24 am

More info on the Dicktator module, it comes with the plug and pins, I paid R400 for my single channel module. Looks better in the engine bay as well...

http://www.dicktator.co.za/ignitermodules.html
Current rides:

VW Golf - 83 GT 2.1 16V 2-door with throttles
VW Golf - 78 LS 2.0 8V 4-door (2.1 ABF with throttles in progress)
VW Golf - '08 Citi Storm - 1.4 for now
Hyundai - 1.4 Getz (daily)

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Pieta » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:49 am

Ok I will definitely look at these Dictator modules, but what coil will work for this? What coil do you recommend for my application? The distributor was damaged on the import motor and I would like to run without the distributor.

What about the Golf 4 coil with 4 towers? Or what else?
Pieter "Pieta" Oberholzer

97 - Polo Classic 1.6i MP9
- Bilstein + H&R
- 57mm Freeflow
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80.4hp /110NM @ Panic's Dyno

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Torker » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:53 am

Pieta wrote:Ok I will definitely look at these Dictator modules, but what coil will work for this? What coil do you recommend for my application? The distributor was damaged on the import motor and I would like to run without the distributor.

What about the Golf 4 coil with 4 towers? Or what else?


You can use the Opel coilpack, just make sure it's the one without the internal ignition module. If you should decide to get a coil pack with internal ignition module it will simplify your wiring as you will only need Pos and Neg on the coil and the two triggers direct from the management.
Current rides:

VW Golf - 83 GT 2.1 16V 2-door with throttles
VW Golf - 78 LS 2.0 8V 4-door (2.1 ABF with throttles in progress)
VW Golf - '08 Citi Storm - 1.4 for now
Hyundai - 1.4 Getz (daily)

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Pieta » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:58 am

So correct me if I'm wrong,

Then I need a 4 pin, 4 tower coilpack with internal amplifier? That would be the easiest?
Pieter "Pieta" Oberholzer

97 - Polo Classic 1.6i MP9
- Bilstein + H&R
- 57mm Freeflow
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80.4hp /110NM @ Panic's Dyno

20V AGU - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=193644

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby dbndude » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:27 am

Pieta wrote:So correct me if I'm wrong,

Then I need a 4 pin, 4 tower coilpack with internal amplifier? That would be the easiest?



this is the coil pack i am using for my abf.

http://shop.martinscarparts.co.za/?wpsc ... oil-pack-2

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Pieta » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:11 am

Thanks Torker,

You are helping me a great deal here. So I assume the one you are running has got the amplifier?
Pieter "Pieta" Oberholzer

97 - Polo Classic 1.6i MP9
- Bilstein + H&R
- 57mm Freeflow
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80.4hp /110NM @ Panic's Dyno

20V AGU - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=193644

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby panic-mechanic » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:44 am

The golf 4 coil has a built in amplifier and you can use that to fire direct from the dictator. I prefer them by far above the opel coil. They are more expensive though.

Yes you HAVE tochange the pickup. I gave you the part number.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'07 Audi S6 V10 - beast !!!!!
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'07 Audi A4 2l TDI
'95 Audi 90 coupe quattro
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Pieta » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:56 am

Thanks Panic,

Got the part number, will get me one of those as well. Thanks for sorting out the coil for me as well.

One step closer...
Pieter "Pieta" Oberholzer

97 - Polo Classic 1.6i MP9
- Bilstein + H&R
- 57mm Freeflow
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80.4hp /110NM @ Panic's Dyno

20V AGU - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=193644

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Yakuza Racer » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:03 pm

a picture for reference, im running the MSD 6A and MSD coil

Image

sorry for the MOERSA picture
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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby Torker » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:23 pm

Pieta wrote:Thanks Torker,

You are helping me a great deal here. So I assume the one you are running has got the amplifier?


I'm running conventional dizzy with Dicktator Std & ignition amp and bottle type MSD coil, looking to change to a full MSD setup in the near future...
Current rides:

VW Golf - 83 GT 2.1 16V 2-door with throttles
VW Golf - 78 LS 2.0 8V 4-door (2.1 ABF with throttles in progress)
VW Golf - '08 Citi Storm - 1.4 for now
Hyundai - 1.4 Getz (daily)

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Re: ABF & Dictator 60-2 Question

Postby BOSKY » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:33 pm

panic-mechanic wrote:The golf 4 coil has a built in amplifier and you can use that to fire direct from the dictator. I prefer them by far above the opel coil. They are more expensive though.

Yes you HAVE tochange the pickup. I gave you the part number.



HELLO... I AM ALSO CONSIDERING TO USE A GOLF4 COIL (WITH A BUILT IN AMP) without the BLUE FIRE. IS THAT POSSIBLE AND SAFE? HOW DO I WIRE IT?

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