My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

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1.8iblackie
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My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by 1.8iblackie »

So at flippen last the time has come for my 8 valve to see blower. It was the plan all a long to go turbo and that is why I went with cross flow head but because of budget constraints I could not do the whole build in one go and that is why I ran throttles for about the last 6 months. I have to say I am not disappointed in the performance and it a very nippy and enjoyable engine.

So after scavenging the 4 corners off cape town I finally have all that is needed.

This is what my parts collection missions looked like.

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This was the last of my trips and managed to get more or less the last couple of things that I needed.

The idea was to not let my car stand for the entire build so I decided to build a separate sub assembly and then just swap it out along with the rest of the turbo parts. Hopefully this will make the build no longer than 2 weeks. .

Some more of the this that I collected for the build.
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This engine looks complete but there were a couple of surprises inside. The pistons are ceramic coated but their side walls are destroyed. Some of the bearings were not even put in and the crank was full of metal filings :crazy:

OK so this is were I started

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The head I got from Sakkie at Dynotech and I payed R4200 for the head including the port and flow with the big valve conversion. I think it was a fair price. I am currently running this head with the throttles on a standard ady block.
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Some more of the bits that I have been gathering over time.
ISKY valve springs
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apk manifold compliments of Maranoux
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oil cooler compliments of maranoux
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some bits from Flat Four Racing
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Some bits from Cowley
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This cam from my last part hunt along with everything else in the back of the car for R1000
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The idea was to to use one of the sets of 82.5mm Mahle's in the block but once i started stripping it down some clear problems started sticking out their heads! The first was that the pistons that was in the block was way to small for the bore. The second was the condition of the piston skirts and the third was the general shocking way in which this sub was assembled.

The pistons that came out.
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The metal shavings on the crank :crazy:
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Some of the mains and big ends weren't even in there. After seeing all this I decided that a complete rebuild was in order. I ran off to Alert and Master Parts and some goodies.

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New intermediates
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Some peace of mind.
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83.5mm kombi numbers Nurals
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Then the block and internals went of to engineering and came back all pretty. Small ends re bushed to 20mm and crank was cut 10-10.
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The internals went to Warren Lotters for balancing and crank magic.
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And then came assembly and paint.
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So the block is pretty much done and I will be using my Fedanza flywheel and Clutch net pressure plate as it is on my car currently with a vr6 clutch plate.
Then I started looking at the condition of the puffer.
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Its housings are very badly machined and not so nice for my setup. There were 2 very small nicks on the compressor wheel and the shaft shows some use but Kallie is going to do some magic there as well as a new compressor and exhaust housing to better soot my application and I will be getting it back some time this comming week. Took some spy shots of his beautiful 2 door while in his workshop.
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So this is were I am at the moment. Once I get the turbo back I will be making the turbo manifold. Still need to get a throttle body and a extra set of injectors, decent feul pump and intercooler. Then it is assembly time and dyno will be last week in Jan 2012.

Will do some updates along the way. Please feel free to give any comments and suggestions.

Regards
Reinier
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Re: My 8 vale itbs to turbo convertion begins.

Post by 1.8iblackie »

Got my fuel rail yesterday. Will be running 2 sets of injectors. A sets of hyundai injectors along with the focus st injectors thats now in my throttles.
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Re: My 8 vale itbs to turbo convertion begins.

Post by Mc3103 »

Looks interesting. I will be following this for sure.
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Re: My 8 vale itbs to turbo convertion begins.

Post by MhVW »

1.8iblackie wrote:ISKY valve springs
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What's the partnumber on those ISKY's?

Did you get retainers for them as well?
| 2006 VW Polo Classic 1.9TDi ...Tow Car... | ? ? ? ? ? ? ...Weekend Warrior... | 2005 Honda CBX250 Twister ...Daily... |
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Re: My 8 vale itbs to turbo convertion begins.

Post by 1.8iblackie »

OUTER W/DAMPER ORANGE------1.5301.110120 lbs290 lbs3301.120.525”
(CHROME SILICON) @1.875”@1.350”
Got them from MOTOWN Using my standard retainers. Part number *805-DO.
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Re: My 8 vale itbs to turbo convertion begins.

Post by Jetta2 »

Congrats on getting those bits.

That exhaust mani for the turbo is for a 16V head, so you will need an 8V one to bolt to the X-flow head.
AR ratio specs on that turbo turbine housing? I see the comp housing is AR.70. Please measure the inducer and exducer sizes as well like this:

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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by 1.8iblackie »

I am building a new turbo mani from scratch but I have to finish up the cobra fist. Building new branches for it.Thats just a 16valve mani that I got with the rest off the stuff.
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I dont know if I measured it correctly but what I got on the compressor wheel is 59/76. Didnt measure the exhaust wheel. Will do that when I get the turbo back. I am getting new hosings so the housings that U see there are not the sizes that I am going to run.
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by PoLonY »

why 2 sets of injectors?

The ST injectors are large enough for good HP, what power do you want to make?
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by Zubair »

60-1 wheel is too big for an 8V. That comp wheel will only build full boost when your motors out of steam. That wheels is better suited to 16V/20V applications.
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by 1.8iblackie »

I took the whole turbo just like it is there to Kallie. He took everything apart and measured everything and said that with a new exhaust and compressor housings the turbo will work fine on my 8 valve. I have no knowledge of turbo's at all so you would know a lot better than me. He says that he has built this exact setup turbo for a 8 valve before and it worked great. I will have a chat with with him an hear wha the says. Thanks Zubair.

@ PoLonY. The ST injectors are 315cc and wont quite make it. I want to mount the bigger set up further in the manifold to give more time to atomize and cool the charge.
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by zain_c »

nice stuff! looks good and i'm subscribed! :wink:

You selling the throttles?
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by 1.8iblackie »

@zainyboymk1: yes, and the rowland mani and the 298cam.
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by Zubair »

This was the same turbo Maranou asked me about. Its a 7 blade 60-1 HI-Fi(T04B) stepped backing plate. If you use a smaller turbine to try and spool that wheel you don't get it to spin fast enough at higher rpm and it falls short of peak efficiency. I'm just saying thats all...
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by 1.8iblackie »

Same turbo yes. I dont think he is going to use a smaller turbine just a smaller housing that he is going to machine to fit over the wheel. I will mention all of this to him and hear what he says. I will give him a ring just now. Thanks Zubair.
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by 1.8iblackie »

Ok so I just had a long chat with Kallie and he says I have nothing to worry about. He says something about a t3 housing that he is going to machine to go over the t4 blade and something with the way he is going to machine the new compressor housing and he guarantees me that it will spool early enough to get a nice usable power band and that it will not choke at the top. I am just gonna go with it. This guy has build so many turbo's as well as the one Maranou is using to make his 350kW and 500Nm and he really knows his stuff. If it doesnt work U guys can always tell me "we told U so". I am just gonna hope for the best.
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by ACiD_Omega »

1.8iblackie wrote:@zainyboymk1: yes, and the rowland mani and the 298cam.
price please :grin:
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by PoLonY »

what power are you shooting for?

I really think the twin fuel rail setup is a waste and more complication then necessary
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by Jetta2 »

I would take Zubair's advice on turbo specs over anyone else's any day.
Just saying.

Been there, done that, had 3 turbo's specced wrong to my needs to prove it....
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by Zubair »

1.8iblackie wrote:Ok so I just had a long chat with Kallie and he says I have nothing to worry about. He says something about a t3 housing that he is going to machine to go over the t4 blade and something with the way he is going to machine the new compressor housing and he guarantees me that it will spool early enough to get a nice usable power band and that it will not choke at the top. I am just gonna go with it. This guy has build so many turbo's as well as the one Maranou is using to make his 350kW and 500Nm and he really knows his stuff. If it doesnt work U guys can always tell me "we told U so". I am just gonna hope for the best.

Using a smaller turbine housing will spool earlier, but what happens at high rpm? The scroll area around the turbine wheel isn't large enough to spin the turbine wheel to optimum rpm. If the turbine doesn't spin to optimum rpm, that means the compressor won't either as they connected via a common shaft. The mistake guys make is they don't look and plot air flow vs boost vs compressor rpm for an application. A 60-1 hifi needs more rpm vs another T04 wheel to attain the same boost. Just google T04E 50 and 60-1 compressor maps, have a look at the rpm differences. The 60-1 is a wheel that loves rpm and needs a motor that can ingest 57+lbs of airflow.You need multivalves for that. I don't debate that you will make power but I prefer speccing per application as opposed to trying to make something work. My debate is peak power and usable efficiency will be lower than a wheel more suited to your application. Maranou makes 350kw flywheel and thats good, he asks me daily about different combo's sometimes my thumbs hurt from all the bbm texting :lol: but I also mentioned to him howmuch he can improve over what he has. So far what I've heard about Kallie is only good so yeah, try what he advises if its not gona cost you more, but I'm certain you gona be posting again asking of what other combo suits your motor better. Either way, advice is free and I'm extra passionate about turbo's, so much so that I have a R50K forged billet at my bedside :lol:
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by 1.8iblackie »

Its actually costing me very little to nothing at the moment as I am trading his labour for a 2E block and a set of nural oem pistons. I have plotted the flow vs boost vs rpm om a lot of maps and I actually thought that the gt2860rs would be a very nice turbo to put on the 8 valve but I kind of got this turbo for free and its costing me very little to get it rebuilt. I definitly would have liked something specs perfectly for my setup but I cant afford to spend more money on the turbo now. I am pretty sure that your right about me asking for advise on the correct turbo on a later stage but unfortunatly this is what I am stuck with for the moment. I am just hoping that it spool the way he says it will.
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by Jetta2 »

GT2860R or GT2871R is perfect for an 8V setup. Got a GT2871R on the Jetta.
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by PoLonY »

Disco pat is a great all round lil turbo
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by 1.8iblackie »

Has anyone got some info on the way different styles of turbo manifolds influence power a spool characteristics. Ive got some options on what types of manifolds I can build and would like to know what would be the best. The differences I am revering to is length of runner and the amount of bends. Ive heard that longer runner gives more torque and gives better exhaust gas velocity but more heat gets lots the the larger surface area of the manifold. And that more exhaust energy is conserved in a manifold with shorter runner. Any experience from guys that have used both types?

This I believe is something that Jetta2 looked at. Long runner.
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And this is what he actually has. Slightly shorter runner.
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And this is something with even shorter runners.
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And this is the shortest possible option.
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I want to start building tomorrow.
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by Zubair »

A longer runner manifold will have better flow up top, while a shorter manifold can yield a faster spool, with also less lag.
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Re: My 8 valve itbs to turbo conversion begins.

Post by Stu »

man I take my hat off to you - damn lots of good work gone into this build - very impressive
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