Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

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Kushal
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Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

Post by Kushal »

Howzit guys.

I recently got my project (1994 1.3 citi) running again, i just re-did the timing again, with the 3 timing points,
using the 6 degree BTDC timing mark on the fly wheel because i have a static timing light, it struggles to start but i'm assuming its because of the ignition timing. However when i try to set it with the timing light the mark on the flywheel is nowhere to be seen ( when the light flashes i cant see the mark) even when turning the dizzy i cant see the mark. I have no clue what to do. (It idles fine once it has started though) Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks Guys


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PapaJo
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Re: Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

Post by PapaJo »

The mark on dizzy is for the 6 degree BTDC, same as the ‘“v” stamped mark on the flywheel. This is not TDC.

The centre of the rotor should be centre on the mark on dizzy casing.
The sharp point on the gearbox casing must line up with the “v” stamped mark on the flywheel. The dizzy timing will then be on 6 degree BTDC.

The TDC flywheel mark is just before the flywheel bolt when you rotate motor clockwise and would be in this round hole just as the “v” stamped mark disappear.

The TDC mark is normally a cast mark ”0” just before the bolt if it is an OEM flywheel. The front crank pulley mark should the line up. Check that head timing is on its nark when front pulley mark is on TDC.
VAG Fan
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Re: Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

Post by VAG Fan »

Jo, I agree on almost everything, but are you sure the notch in the dizzy is for 6° BTDC?
I always thought it was for TDC.
Mark R.
- - - - - - - - - -
2004 VW Golf TDI, type 1J, AHF, 317k (2016-current) --- daily
1990 VW Fox, type 16, HM, 304k (2005-current) --- spare runaround
Previous:
1992 Audi 500 SE, type C4, AAR (2001-2020) --- nice while it lasted
1983 VW Golf GTS, type 17, FR (1992-2005) --- most fun car I've ever had
1978 Audi 100 GLS 5E, type 43, WC (1991-92) --- died in the side of a Rekord who cut me off
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Kushal
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Re: Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

Post by Kushal »

PapaJo wrote:The mark on dizzy is for the 6 degree BTDC, same as the ‘“v” stamped mark on the flywheel. This is not TDC.

The centre of the rotor should be centre on the mark on dizzy casing.
The sharp point on the gearbox casing must line up with the “v” stamped mark on the flywheel. The dizzy timing will then be on 6 degree BTDC.

The TDC flywheel mark is just before the flywheel bolt when you rotate motor clockwise and would be in this round hole just as the “v” stamped mark disappear.

The TDC mark is normally a cast mark ”0” just before the bolt if it is an OEM flywheel. The front crank pulley mark should the line up. Check that head timing is on its nark when front pulley mark is on TDC.
Ok thanks so what is the correct way to time the engine


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PapaJo
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Re: Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

Post by PapaJo »

Kushal wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 1:48 pm
PapaJo wrote:The mark on dizzy is for the 6 degree BTDC, same as the ‘“v” stamped mark on the flywheel. This is not TDC.

The centre of the rotor should be centre on the mark on dizzy casing.
The sharp point on the gearbox casing must line up with the “v” stamped mark on the flywheel. The dizzy timing will then be on 6 degree BTDC.

The TDC flywheel mark is just before the flywheel bolt when you rotate motor clockwise and would be in this round hole just as the “v” stamped mark disappear.

The TDC mark is normally a cast mark ”0” just before the bolt if it is an OEM flywheel. The front crank pulley mark should then line up. Check that head timing is on its mark when front pulley mark is on TDC.
Ok thanks so what is the correct way to time the engine


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You first put crank on TDC on front pulley mark and check that your cam timing is also on. TDC, then you turn motor over back to the flywheel 6 degree BTDC mark and no:1 piston almost at TDC. This would be 2 full rotations on crank to where rotor is at no:1 sparkplug position on dizzy cap and the rotate dizzy until the centre of the rotor is on the groove mark and fasten bolt that holds dizzy down in block. Clip the dizzy cap back on and start motor.
Last edited by PapaJo on Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
VAG Fan
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Re: Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

Post by VAG Fan »

To add to Jo's good instructions:
Once the engine is at the 6° BTDC mark, you may find that the positioning of the dizzy rotor relative to the no.1 electrode on the cap is not good (i.e. the cables need to be twisted too much). This would normally not happen, except if the dizzy has been removed and not re-fitted correctly. If that's the case, you can remove the dizzy, turn the rotor to a better position, and then re-insert the dizzy into the engine and bolt it down loosely. If my memory serves me correctly, the rotor (and no.1 electrode of the cap) should be pointing roughly to an area between the radiator and the left headlight. After you have that lined up, then you turn the body of the dizzy, to line up the notch with the centre of the rotor, and bolt it down.
Mark R.
- - - - - - - - - -
2004 VW Golf TDI, type 1J, AHF, 317k (2016-current) --- daily
1990 VW Fox, type 16, HM, 304k (2005-current) --- spare runaround
Previous:
1992 Audi 500 SE, type C4, AAR (2001-2020) --- nice while it lasted
1983 VW Golf GTS, type 17, FR (1992-2005) --- most fun car I've ever had
1978 Audi 100 GLS 5E, type 43, WC (1991-92) --- died in the side of a Rekord who cut me off
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PapaJo
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Re: Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

Post by PapaJo »

Green is the “v’ stamped mark and 6 degrees BTDC. Blue is the TDC mark.

Image
Kushal
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Re: Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

Post by Kushal »

PapaJo wrote:
Kushal wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 1:48 pm
PapaJo wrote:The mark on dizzy is for the 6 degree BTDC, same as the ‘“v” stamped mark on the flywheel. This is not TDC.

The centre of the rotor should be centre on the mark on dizzy casing.
The sharp point on the gearbox casing must line up with the “v” stamped mark on the flywheel. The dizzy timing will then be on 6 degree BTDC.

The TDC flywheel mark is just before the flywheel bolt when you rotate motor clockwise and would be in this round hole just as the “v” stamped mark disappear.

The TDC mark is normally a cast mark ”0” just before the bolt if it is an OEM flywheel. The front crank pulley mark should then line up. Check that head timing is on its mark when front pulley mark is on TDC.
Ok thanks so what is the correct way to time the engine


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You first put crank on TDC on front pulley mark and check that your cam timing is also on. TDC, then you turn motor over back to the flywheel 6 degree BTDC mark and no:1 piston almost at TDC. This would be 2 full rotations on crank to where rotor is at no:1 sparkplug position on dizzy cap and the rotate dizzy until the centre of the rotor is on the groove mark and fasten bolt that holds dizzy down in block. Clip the dizzy cap back on and start motor.
Oh ok thank you so much. Now with the dizzy I know the rotor should point to the number 1 electrode but how should the actual distributor and rotor sit (i.e should it face cylinder 4 or 12'o clock)

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PapaJo
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Re: Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

Post by PapaJo »

Kushal wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 6:32 pm
PapaJo wrote:
Kushal wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 1:48 pm
PapaJo wrote:The mark on dizzy is for the 6 degree BTDC, same as the ‘“v” stamped mark on the flywheel. This is not TDC.

The centre of the rotor should be centre on the mark on dizzy casing.
The sharp point on the gearbox casing must line up with the “v” stamped mark on the flywheel. The dizzy timing will then be on 6 degree BTDC.

The TDC flywheel mark is just before the flywheel bolt when you rotate motor clockwise and would be in this round hole just as the “v” stamped mark disappear.

The TDC mark is normally a cast mark ”0” just before the bolt if it is an OEM flywheel. The front crank pulley mark should then line up. Check that head timing is on its mark when front pulley mark is on TDC.
Ok thanks so what is the correct way to time the engine


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You first put crank on TDC on front pulley mark and check that your cam timing is also on. TDC, then you turn motor over back to the flywheel 6 degree BTDC mark and no:1 piston almost at TDC. This would be 2 full rotations on crank to where rotor is at no:1 sparkplug position on dizzy cap and the rotate dizzy until the centre of the rotor is on the groove mark and fasten bolt that holds dizzy down in block. Clip the dizzy cap back on and start motor.
Oh ok thank you so much. Now with the dizzy I know the rotor should point to the number 1 electrode but how should the actual distributor and rotor sit (i.e should it face cylinder 4 or 12'o clock)

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VAG_FAN explained it in the post before my flywheel picture.
Kushal
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Re: Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

Post by Kushal »

PapaJo wrote:
Kushal wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 6:32 pm
PapaJo wrote:
Kushal wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 1:48 pm Ok thanks so what is the correct way to time the engine


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You first put crank on TDC on front pulley mark and check that your cam timing is also on. TDC, then you turn motor over back to the flywheel 6 degree BTDC mark and no:1 piston almost at TDC. This would be 2 full rotations on crank to where rotor is at no:1 sparkplug position on dizzy cap and the rotate dizzy until the centre of the rotor is on the groove mark and fasten bolt that holds dizzy down in block. Clip the dizzy cap back on and start motor.
Oh ok thank you so much. Now with the dizzy I know the rotor should point to the number 1 electrode but how should the actual distributor and rotor sit (i.e should it face cylinder 4 or 12'o clock)

Sent from my SM-S711B using Tapatalk
VAG_FAN explained it in the post before my flywheel picture.
Ok thanks for the help guys

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VAG Fan
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Re: Timing mark on fly wheel not matching up with Timing light

Post by VAG Fan »

The spark timing is only influenced by the setting of the dizzy relative to the rotor. If you remove the dizzy from the engine, and re-insert it in a different position, but you keep the rotor and body in the same relative positions, then the timing will remain the same.

BUT...

When you do your set-up at 6°BTDC, wherever the notch on the dizzy body points, relative to the cylinder head, will automatically cause the No.1 plug on the dizzy cap to point in the same direction. So you should point the rotor and the notch in the same direction where the No.1 cable sits twist-free, otherwise all the cables will be twisted when you put the cap on the dizzy.
Mark R.
- - - - - - - - - -
2004 VW Golf TDI, type 1J, AHF, 317k (2016-current) --- daily
1990 VW Fox, type 16, HM, 304k (2005-current) --- spare runaround
Previous:
1992 Audi 500 SE, type C4, AAR (2001-2020) --- nice while it lasted
1983 VW Golf GTS, type 17, FR (1992-2005) --- most fun car I've ever had
1978 Audi 100 GLS 5E, type 43, WC (1991-92) --- died in the side of a Rekord who cut me off
- - - - - - - - - -
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