Your DSG experience

[Ram013]

Gents

Now since most of us are such loyal VAG aficionados, what's your experience been with our dear twin-clutches?

I'll start off...

Expensive to maintain (why the fook is the oil so damn expensive?), expensive to fix (my mechatronic popped at around 40 000km's, but thankfully replaced under warranty).
They all seem rather consistent with low speed downshift 3rd into 2nd, not that smooth.
Otherwise in all the cars I've driven (Mk5, Mk6, Roc, Passat, Jetta, Tiguan), that instantaneous gear shift is most welcome.

[Belix]

MK6, had no issues in 107odd km. Would occasionally lurch into gear when coming to a stop, and then getting going again. Only noticed downchange 3 to 2 being unsmooth when I used the paddles. In auto mode never noticed that.

Passat, same version DSG gearbox I think, but it acts differently. Not sure if because of the stop start, but it seems to like staying in a low gear until quite high in the rev range (golf changed up quite quickly, was in 6th most of the time). Also it's not the smoothest when going from coasting to accelerating, and when changing up under low acceleration, also maybe to do with recharging the battery for stop-start.

[Ram013]

I guess we should be thankful that we are running the wet-clutch setup.

Interesting observation about the Jetta. Agreed though, sometimes you can catch the 'box off guard especially when coasting and it just changes up, but then you decide to overtake someone.

[THANAS]

DSG is life. I had a Mech unit failure on my old 2006 A3 2.0T DSG about a month into ownership (in 2018) at 165k kms or thereabouts, completely stock DSG software, completely unexpected, what seemed to be a voltage regulator on the board failed, and in a way that could not be repaired. We set about finding another matching CXX (Early G5/A3 8P DSG) box, found a second hand TDI DSG box, removed the Mech unit, installed it into my box, flashed it with the correct petrol coding and it was a dream after that.

My gripes with DSG other than fixing them when they break, which is generic to most car components, is the upshift and downshift tables. The stock calibration is hopeless in both D and S. D mode upshifts way too soon in most applications, leaving you constantly in a high gear, it's also reluctant to downshift unless you really give it a lot of pedal input (which in most cases ends up in a downshift AND an unintended surge of acceleration, where all that was wanted was a downshift). This makes the overall drive of the car unresponsive to low level pedal input and over-reactive once a downshift finally occurs, this effect is exaggerated when just the ECU is tuned . S mode is just lunatic, crackhead mode, hanging on to the gears endlessly and shifting at the redline.

Fortunately both of these can be solved with a DSG remap, I've spent a lot of time calibrating and testing different D and S mode, up- and down-shift tables to keep the car closer to the motors efficiency point,keep the gears longer at lower pedal input and be more responsive and willing to downshift. It also prevents lugging of the motor, which is an LSPI risk on DI motors. The result is a far more responsive drive and less impetus to reach for the paddles to downshift when you want response. The same with S mode, bringing the shift points down at lower throttle input and spacing out the downshifts, makes it driveable and more like D+ or D++ than S!!!! mode (high pedal inputs will still bring out the monster).

Newer platforms offering DSG are entirely designed with DSG in mind. *Unpopular opinion* but a tuned, manual Mk7 GTi, for example, is an uphill battle to fight clutch slip while keeping a soft pedal feel/resorting to competition level clutches. For a high power daily or just high power in general, DSG is vastly superior.

There are also a number of pro-tips when driving a DSG to get the smoothest response out of it, particularly when manually downshift, i.e. loading the motor before downshifting will result in a much smoother and quicker downshift, as it allows the box to pre-empt your next move.

#DirektschaltgetriebeLife

Edit: PS, The above is in reference to the wet-clutch setup(DQ250/380/381/500 etc), the DQ200, dry clutch is horrendous in general, avoid it like the plague.

[Ram013]

@Thanas, interesting about your failure, my car was (and still is) stock.

I fully agree that S mode is just plain stupid. It's definitely pointless revving beyond peak power, which it insists on doing as it tries to chase the redline.

I haven't spent too much time with my Tiguan, but noticed on the weekend during some highway driving it's guilty of lugging and staying in 7th. Then again, I may have had it in grandpa - eco mode.

Despite being a newbie, your detailed feedback tells me you're one experienced operator.

[Farhad1]

Does the Mk7 Gti have a dry or wet clutch?

[amstel18]

In my Audi I've noticed that the box "adapts" to my driving style.
So say I've been in "oupa" mode cruising around and then try and bang the loud pedal and start driving like a knob, the shifts are lazy. After a few minutes it becomes more lively to drive.

I don't know if it has something to do with the Drive Select in the Audi in individual mode where it adapts to your driving style or what.
If I put it into dynamic its immediately responsive.

[Ram013]

Does the Mk7 Gti have a dry or wet clutch?

Wet clutch

[Ram013]

In my Audi I've noticed that the box "adapts" to my driving style.
So say I've been in "oupa" mode cruising around and then try and bang the loud pedal and start driving like a knob, the shifts are lazy. After a few minutes it becomes more lively to drive.

I don't know if it has something to do with the Drive Select in the Audi in individual mode where it adapts to your driving style or what.
If I put it into dynamic its immediately responsive.

I do believe that these boxes adapt to your driving style, although it may be ultimately determined by the driving mode you're in.

[Sebz]

I have always been a snobbish purist who refuses to accept that anything but a manual gearbox and three pedals is worth considering in a car that is driven for pleasure. A commuter car that sits in traffic should be a torque converter auto and a performance car should be a manual. DSG always seemed like a compromise, especially on early models that I'd driven. Unless it's a dry-clutch system, though, DSG is just epic and if maintained correctly, not too much of a worry.

I've also seen a number of cars improve their speeds / times with a change from manual to DSG.

Yes, the oil and servicing can be expensive, but it's really not much of a sacrifice to make. Most of us have turbocharged cars and we don't drive them less because they cost more to fix than most N/A cars (besides the big HP N/A cars obviously).

I've also experienced the 3rd to 2nd issue in manual / sport mode, but bar the rubbish DQ200, even a three-pedal-enthusiast like me must admit that these gearboxes are overall pretty damn good and are getting better all the time, especially with a good tune.

[Ram013]

I hear you, a true driver's car must have 3 pedals as it definitely gives you a more involving drive. Yes, it's more slower if all you're worried about are 0-100 and 1/4 mile times, but there's more to enjoying the vehicle dynamics than simply outright acceleration.

Ah, but we live in a world of compromises so it's pretty decent. In terms of maintenance, correct, it's par for the course and just something we have to accept.

Interesting that you didn't mention CVT...my old man's B6 simply chows its control unit (3rd one in around 15 years). Somehow the Jap manufacturers just love these 'boxes though.

[EX-DOHCTOR]

Never a days trouble with my Jetta 6. Although we've only done 70000KM's in 5 years, so maybe that's why?

[Ram013]

Never a days trouble with my Jetta 6. Although we've only done 70000KM's in 5 years, so maybe that's why?

That's good news, sometimes it's the luck of the draw.

[jimbo]

On 215 000km with my mk5 TDI DSG, mostly highway driving and always adhered to the oil changes every 60 000km. Not always the smoothest driving experience especially in heavy traffic it tends to jerk between downshifts.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Ram013]

My jerkiness also occurred in heavy traffic, after around 30min of driving. 3rd into 2nd was jerky but 2nd into 1st was the most brutal.

What a mission it was to get it diagnosed, as there were no error codes being logged so the dealership didn't believe me. Until I forced the service manager to sit with me in traffic for around 30 min, then the penny dropped.

[sbu.mah]

Pulled the trigger and went for a DSG, MK7 GTI after driving only manuals (still have one, if I want something more engaging). At first I must admit used to find it very frustrating when driving in traffic, as the car felt like it was second guessing which gear to be on. Sports mode for me it felt like it was holding the revs too long, thought the thing will blow up. Didn't even know weather the car must be on D or N, when stopping on traffic light

But fast forward 4 months since I have taken ownership of the car, must admit DSG is some piece of sophisticated engineering.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Sebz]

Pulled the trigger and went for a DSG, MK7 GTI after driving only manuals (still have one, if I want something more engaging). At first I must admit used to find it very frustrating when driving in traffic, as the car felt like it was second guessing which gear to be on. Sports mode for me it felt like it was holding the revs too long, thought the thing will blow up. Didn't even know weather the car must be on D or N, when stopping on traffic light

But fast forward 4 months since I have taken ownership of the car, must admit DSG is some piece of sophisticated engineering.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

It's crazy to think that technology only available on the latest supercars 15-20 years ago is now commonplace and so advanced for daily driving

[Ram013]

Pulled the trigger and went for a DSG, MK7 GTI after driving only manuals (still have one, if I want something more engaging). At first I must admit used to find it very frustrating when driving in traffic, as the car felt like it was second guessing which gear to be on. Sports mode for me it felt like it was holding the revs too long, thought the thing will blow up. Didn't even know weather the car must be on D or N, when stopping on traffic light

But fast forward 4 months since I have taken ownership of the car, must admit DSG is some piece of sophisticated engineering.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Congrats for taking the leap. The 'box definitely does not like erratic throttle inputs so maybe that was part of the issue. I think we all agree that Sport is a bit mad.

[PeanutGTD]

this is probably not going to be a popular opinion...

i had a BMW with a 7 speed DCT gearbox and that trumps the 6 speed DSG in my 2018 GTD to pieces.

[Ram013]

this is probably not going to be a popular opinion...

i had a BMW with a 7 speed DCT gearbox and that trumps the 6 speed DSG in my 2018 GTD to pieces.

Sounds like a M3/M4 so all day, every day, I'd expect it to be better. Those M models are just something.

[PeanutGTD]

this is probably not going to be a popular opinion...

i had a BMW with a 7 speed DCT gearbox and that trumps the 6 speed DSG in my 2018 GTD to pieces.

Sounds like a M3/M4 so all day, every day, I'd expect it to be better. Those M models are just something.

Not that nice no, was a 2012 E82 135i.

[Ram013]

Ah, I see. Still an awesome car though.

I was under the impression those were steptronic, until you and now Google, corrected me.

[Kavi4GP]

7 speed dry clutch DQ200 is a hit or miss affair , alot fail around 100000km clutch's and mech units go easy with little warning. Not being serviceable to set interval doesn't help...VW does sell the oil for the gearbox side, but no instructions.

Sent from my CPH1717 using Tapatalk

[Ram013]

7 speed dry clutch DQ200 is a hit or miss affair , alot fail around 100000km clutch's and mech units go easy with little warning. Not being serviceable to set interval doesn't help...VW does sell the oil for the gearbox side, but no instructions.

Sent from my CPH1717 using Tapatalk

Agreed, that was a dog indeed. Not sure if the goal was weight-saving, and therefore fuel efficiency but they clearly didn't look at the longevity of the 'box.

[panic-mechanic]

I have said it before and will maintain that opinion, you must understand how dsg/dct boxes work and somewhat modify your driving behaviour to suit what it does and to ensure longevity. Treating it like a torque converter auto will see it die shortly.