03 Golf Starting issue

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Shagwaggon
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03 Golf Starting issue

Post by Shagwaggon »

So I have a 2003 new spec citi golf (1.4 carb) , bought it with 160 000 on the clock. All was going well had no issues with it until one day I park it after driving for a while then when I go to start it nothing...as if the battery was completely dead.

So I sat for a while then tried again and she fired up first time, so I thought maybe it was an overheating issue as I was able to drive and park several more times after without a problem.

Now the problem is here to stay, no matter when I park the car will not start without a push or a jump. Turn the key and there is silence.

So I read through some forums and started looking to the charging system. Had battery checked and it's still good , even used my brothers brand new battery with no difference. Removed the starter and bench tested it to see if it was maybe the solenoid or starter not engaging but once I hooked the starter up to the battery and jumped power to the signal pin the starter and solenoid both engaged, so the starters fine... finally the altenator- I hear no funny noises or belt hops when the car is running but I removed the altenator anyway, cleaned the grounding connections , cleaned the bushes inside with a piece of toilet roll and replaced the voltage regulator just in case. Threw it back in hoping that my problem would be resolved but nothing.

Turn the key and I can hear the starter spin and whirr but if i turn the key again there's silence.

12.5v across the battery and at the starter Power post as well as the altenator post. All connections have been cleaned including battery terminals.

I did a voltage drop test over the altenator and I read that anything below 0.2v is acceptable. Voltage drop over the + circuit is under but on the negative circuit I get a reading of +- 1.7V.

I have a feeling these lost volts are the cause of my problem but I have inspected the grounding from the altenator and can not see an obvious culprit.. anywhere I may have missed? Is there a common spot where theres bad ground?

Any help would be great as I am having to push or jump my car every time I want to drive somewhere, but once I do she drives perfectly however I do notice the cooling system gets very hot but the temp guard stays at half.

Thanks for reading my story =D
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Medres
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by Medres »

Usual suspect
Image

Followed by
Image

I’ve been having a similar issue
Howie-WP
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by Howie-WP »

Shagwaggon wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:29 am Turn the key and I can hear the starter spin and whirr but if i turn the key again there's silence.
Explain this a bit more. Surely it should not be doing this? First turn is just powering up the circuits, second turn is to fire starter? Or am I misunderstanding.

Also difference between a push start and Jump start. When you jump start (from another car) does the ignition behave normally (when turning, does it start)?
Shagwaggon
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by Shagwaggon »

Howie WP when I try to start the car the first time the starter will try engage (whirring) but still nothing will happen. Once I try a second time there is silence.

And yes when I jump start from another car the ignition behaves normally and starts the car, I have tried hotwiring it to bypass the ignition to see if that was the fault but it isn't. I have also checked to see that I am getting 12.5v to the starter from the signal wire when i turn the key.
Shagwaggon
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by Shagwaggon »

Medres wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:55 am Usual suspect
Image

Followed by
Image

I’ve been having a similar issue
The wiring plug- is that the one that attaches to the radiator fan? Or am I mistaken...
Any idea why I'm having this problem?

I also might want to mention that my hazards sometimes randomly come on when the car is parked and I have read it may have something to do with the shurlok box - could this be affecting my starting and charging circuits?
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panic-mechanic
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by panic-mechanic »

Test power on the starter signal lead when you turn the key. if it is always there then add a relay to that circuit that give bigger power to the solenoid. if the power disappears when you turn the key then change the ignition switch.
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by Shagwaggon »

panic-mechanic wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:32 pm Test power on the starter signal lead when you turn the key. if it is always there then add a relay to that circuit that give bigger power to the solenoid. if the power disappears when you turn the key then change the ignition switch.
I have done this- when key is on there is no power to the signal wire and as you turn the key to start (to engage starter) I eventually get 12.5v but once the key is released it drops back to 0v.

As I said I tried hotwiring her to bypass the ignition and the problem still persists.
When I jump start from another car the ignition works perfectly .
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panic-mechanic
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by panic-mechanic »

ok so adda relay. IE use the trigger wire to fire the relay and the realy will supply a decent signal to the solenoid. But change the ignition switch - could be the source of the bad signal.
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by Shagwaggon »

panic-mechanic wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:26 pm ok so adda relay. IE use the trigger wire to fire the relay and the realy will supply a decent signal to the solenoid. But change the ignition switch - could be the source of the bad signal.
Okay cool I'll add a relay like you suggest.
Today I turned the key to the on position then disconnected the trigger wire to the starter and then supplied power to the trigger pin via the battery and she fired straight up.

There for I am convinced it's the trigger wire not supplying enough voltage to the starter maybe due to corrosion. When I retested the voltage at the trigger wire when turning the key to START I saw I only got 11.8 volts... I'm assuming that's not enough to trigger the starter?

Also I tested the voltage over my battery once the car was running and it was at 13v then once I increased the RPM it started to climb higher so I believe my altenator is doing it's job. :hurray:
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by panic-mechanic »

Add the relay. it will do exactly what you did by providing power directly from the battery via the trigger wire used to fire it.
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by Shagwaggon »

panic-mechanic wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:24 pm Add the relay. it will do exactly what you did by providing power directly from the battery via the trigger wire used to fire it.
Thanks I just bought myself a bosch relay and will be installing it now.
I'll be connecting it as follows as it makes the most sense to me:
30 - live from battery (+12v)
85 - Ground
86- signal wire from ignition switch
87 - signal wire to starter motor.
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by panic-mechanic »

Yes correct - just put a fuse in the battery to 30 terminal.
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Ducheck
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by Ducheck »

I have a 2004 Mk1 Caddy with MP9 Conversion fuel injection that I bought. It struggles to start after the car stood for about an hour. Once it starts it will starts with the first swing immediately again and again. But the same story after an hour or so.

I have replaced the following
Coil
Rotor
Dizzy Cap
Bougi Cords
Spark Plugs
Relay

Don't know if it could be hall sensor, but tired of replacing everything with no progress
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by panic-mechanic »

Change the water temp sensor. 4 pin device on the water extension housing. Front of motor. Other than that one has to domsome diagnostic. You don't say what you have tested when it does not start. Other than randomly replacing a bunch of parts.
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VAG Fan
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by VAG Fan »

Shagwaggon wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:36 pmWhen I retested the voltage at the trigger wire when turning the key to START I saw I only got 11.8 volts... I'm assuming that's not enough to trigger the starter?
I know you've already decided to put in a relay. But just for the sake of completeness:

The 11.8V that you measured was on an open circuit. There was practically no current flowing, so any resistance doesn't really matter. This is not what the solenoid would actually be seeing.

What you should rather measure, is the voltage on the trigger wire while it is connected and trying to drive the starter solenoid. This will put "real world" current through the wire, and if there is any resistance (e.g. corrosion or a break in the cable core, the voltage will drop over this resistance. Now you will measure the voltage that the solenoid actually sees under operating conditions.

Regarding the voltage drop over the alternator's "negative circuit" - from where to where are you measuring? Alternator housing to negative battery post? If so, then this means you need to clean / corrosion-protect / replace at least one earth connection, braided strap, etc. If you want to find the culprit, idle the engine and switch on the headlights. This puts a current through all the connections. Any resistance will immediately show up as a voltage drop. So, you measure
... from alternator housing to engine block / cylinder head
... from engine block / head to chassis
... from chassis to negative battery post.
Mark R.
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Shagwaggon
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by Shagwaggon »

Thanks for the extra advice VAG fan will have a look again tomorrow.
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Ducheck
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Re: 03 Golf Starting issue

Post by Ducheck »

panic-mechanic wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:40 am Change the water temp sensor. 4 pin device on the water extension housing. Front of motor. Other than that one has to domsome diagnostic. You don't say what you have tested when it does not start. Other than randomly replacing a bunch of parts.
Hi there,

I am no engine guru. But will really appreciate some help.
I will replace the water temp switch also. It over fuels heavily on starting when the engine is hot.

Is there a possibility that I can bring it to you for advice?
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