Car wash has messes up my fuel pump ?

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:25 pm

Hi guys,

I am in the process of selling a 2005 citi golf 1.4i on behalf of someone that has left the country. I took it for a car wash and ever since then the thing went crazy. When I turned on the ignition, my fuel warning light came on and the fuel gauge indicated that i was out of petrol. I was just about to **** at the manager, that someone stole my fuel, when the gauge shot up to full, then half then empty and then half again. Half was correct. I guessed something got a little wet and that the problem would sort its self out in time.

I have been trying to find a solution to this problem for over a week now, but of course none of these greedy **** heads are willing to even talk to me over the phone and want me to tow the car into town. This is the email i sent to many of them.

To whom it may concern.

I took the car for a wash and ever since then, the car has been going crazy.

1: the central locking started going ( up down up down up down ) permanently

2: during the course of this the alarm went off. I could not disarm it with the key and had to disconnect the battery for it to stop. When i reconnected the battery, the locking went mad again. I disconnected again and left the car in the sun with the hood open. A few hours later the problem was solved. I made one more successfull drive and then when i finally had a potential buyer here, the car would not start.

3: On the accelerator cable, there is a metal plate. What is that thing for ? When i turn on the ignition, the plate moves with a "click" and there is a beeping noise coming from that place.
after a while it clicks again and then there is a warning beep inside the car, displaying that there is no fuel. The fuel gauge also indicates that the tank is empty, even though it is not.

4: Checked the plugs, cleaned and sanded out the distributor, battery and connections, replaced all the relevant fuses and relays and still nothing is working. The problem seems to be that the fuel pump is not kicking in. The question is why ?!?

5: When i turn on the ignition, i hear the double click of the fuel pump relay, but the pump does not start.

I have 2 theories. Either the pump is broken due to a mechanical or electrical fault ( mechanical would not seem logical as the car only has 98000km on the clock ) or, the car is stuck in some kind of post-alarm-anti theft mode. I have read that some alarm systems shut down the fuel pump when they are triggered.

I have attached images of the "Plate" i mentioned and a short clip to demonstrate the phenomina after one turns the key to ignition.

Any ideas ??

I am selling the car on behalf of someone else and do not wish to tow it all the way from hout bay, to identify a problem that might be solved within a minute.

Kind Regards,

Rob

here is a video of the problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nED4C_vN ... e=youtu.be

graham savage · Post by **graham savage** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:55 am

Shoooo ok, step away from the car!

That is an mp9 throttle body and it's behavior is perfectly normal.

Does the car have fuel?

Why would you sand out a distributor?

When you switch on the ignition the central locking locks, when you switch off, it unlocks... By the sounds of it, you've been cycling the ignition alot.

DOES the car have an immobiliser tag or alarm remote?

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:14 am

Yo.

While the behaviour of that thing might be normal, the sound can not be as i have never heard it before.

Yes, of course it has fuel

However, the fuel level sending unit shows an empty tank and as mentioned, the fuel light comes on anyway.

There was slight corrosion on the rotar and terminals, hence the light sanding, but it turned out that that was not the problem either. The problem is obviously the fuel pump, but i am looking for a cause that has to do with water damage or post alarm effects.

It has an alarm remote. When the alarm went of ( while the central locking was jumping up and down permanently) the remote would not deactivate the alarm.

zaleonardz · Post by **zaleonardz** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:52 am

All of these things, at the same time makes me suspect a ground....

Tdi jetta 4 ever · Post by **Tdi jetta 4 ever** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:21 pm

Check out my topic below "what is this relays for" . That is the relay for the fuel pump. They do get wet with rain or a car wash. Take them out and pull the plastic covers off and dry them and sand the contact point and give it a little CRC. The pics show the relays without the plastic covers.

riaz786 · Post by **riaz786** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:59 pm

Check the speedo sender unit on the gearbox,your fuel gauge gets an earth feed from it
Had the same problem on my velo

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:51 pm

"Check the speedo sender unit on the gearbox,your fuel gauge gets an earth feed from it
Had the same problem on my velo"

Now that, my friend, ... sounds like sense ! I'll check it out asap once I figure out what it looks like

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:43 pm

Well it wasn't the VSS either.

I have, in turn, disconnected every single electric wire i could find and the problem remained. The idea behind this was , that if it is indeed a grounding fault or still some water stuck somewhere, then one should eventually be able to find the culprid that way ? That makes sense to me at least.

After another 1.5 hours of fiddling I was finally ready to grab some whiskey, curl up in a corner somewhere and have a good old cry.

The last time i felt like this was after working on a carburettor of a 1989 Ducati.

Then before calling it a night I thought about the whole problem and tried to remember in which order the crazyness occoured, when i suddenly had a little brain spark.

- I armed the car alarm
- Turned on the ignition
- The alarm went off
- I disabled the alarm

I turned the ignition on again, and LO BEHOLD !! My bastard petrol gauge is indicating a full tank !!
The petrol pump is still not coming on, but at this point i am 95% certain, that it was indeed the second theory of a post alarm mode disaster.

To confirm this, I triggered the alarm again. This time as soon as i turned the ignition while the car was armed, the central locking once again went completely ape ****.

Up down up down perma. Only way to get it to stop is disconnecting the battery or the 80AMP Fuse near the battery. I am guessing that after 30 min of being disconnected, some sort of reset happens and the central locking is back to normal. The last time i did that, i thought the sun had dried something out.

I innitially thought that the peeps at the car wash drowned the entire engine bay and created a short. Now I think they triggered the alarm and did something stupid afterwards. ( maybe they disabled the alarm by drowning the battery )

I will give it another bash tomorrow and post if i get it sorted and how, but for now *cheers* and thanx for the replies.

Tdi jetta 4 ever · Post by **Tdi jetta 4 ever** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:35 am

Did you ever check those relays i spoke about?

amstel18 · Post by **amstel18** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:26 am

It will be the immobolizer thats faulty as the alarm will cut fuel to the pump. try turning the key into the on position and then press the lock button on the alarm remote.

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:45 am

The relays are fine and clicking as they should. To my dismay, the locking was still going ape **** when i reconnected the bettery this morning. In this situation, i cant disarm the alarm in any way, as it will always try to lock or unlock at the same time.

The theory has now changed to one of the locks being faulty --> forcing the central locking to keep trying to re-lock --> overriding the imobilizer --> not letting me disarm. lol That could make sense if the immobilizer first unlocks/locks the car and then arms/disarms the alarm.

I now removed both front door locks, and although they look identical enough, they are behaving slightly different.

Will post once i know more.

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:48 am

Another thought. Does the central locking and the alarm share the same fuse ?
If not, then which is for what ?

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:53 am

Hello again,

No, I did not fix the problem and not bother to report the outcome. I'm still doing battle but getting close. After taking off and servicing the locks, I was irritated to see no difference in behaviour.
I ended up where i started. Once the ignition is turned on, it indicates an empty tank and the fuel light comes on.

This morning I made an interesting discovery, which I was able to repeat 3 consecutive times with the exact same outcome.

- Sitting in car with doors closed
- Arm the alarm
- Turn on Ignition
- Alarm goes off
- Disarm alarm with remote.
- unlock car
- Turn ignition
- Central locking goes ape **** again and fuel indicates empty
- While the central locking is going mad, I get out the car and open, then close the boot.
- Central locking stops popping up and down
- Get in the car, close the door, turn on the Ignition and

Voila, .. The petrol gauge goes up and indicates a full tank. I got excited again and this time tried to swing it .

Started first time after 1 second. I let the car run for about 5 min and turned on the heater to aid in getting rid of any moisture that might still be hanging around. That was the plan, but as soon as I closed my door to drive out the garage and prevent me gasing myself, the fuel gauge droped to empty , the fuel light and alarm came back on and about 30 sec later the car cut out.

According to VW South Africa, the alarm system on a 2005 citi golf, is in no way able to turn off the power to the fuel pump. The link however seems pretty clear to me.
Alarm/Central locking/Fuel pump. If the Expert from VW is correct, then the central locking is shutting down the fuel pump. Either way, this proves that there is F all wrong with the pump,relay or ecu.

I am quite appaled at the pathetic telephone service and apparent lack of knowledge of the VW dealers. They are not even able to tell me which bloody fuse is responsible for which electric current.
Does anyone have a fuse box diagram for a 2005 Citi 1.4i. ???I

want to disable the central locking completely and see hoe that goes. Im thinking, maybe there is water in the doors ?

Velofox · Post by **Velofox** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:11 am

you do know the earth for the pump and the gauge is in the rear of the car... like there where you slam the tailgate, right?

1: the central locking started going ( up down up down up down ) permanently
- driver or passenger motor is not aligned, both are masters and if it does not lock fully it unlocks again and if is bent... etc etc

4: Checked the plugs, cleaned and sanded out the distributor, battery and connections, replaced all the relevant fuses and relays and still nothing is working. The problem seems to be that the fuel pump is not kicking in. The question is why ?!?
- although you sound very thorough, sounds like you making guesses here, whip out the multimeter and do some testing...
(just recheck my first remark)

5: When i turn on the ignition, i hear the double click of the fuel pump relay, but the pump does not start.
- how sure are you, that what you are hearing is the pump relay, Velo has 2...

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:35 am

Velofox wrote:you do know the earth for the pump and the gauge is in the rear of the car... like there where you slam the tailgate, right?

1: the central locking started going ( up down up down up down ) permanently
- driver or passenger motor is not aligned, both are masters and if it does not lock fully it unlocks again and if is bent... etc etc

4: Checked the plugs, cleaned and sanded out the distributor, battery and connections, replaced all the relevant fuses and relays and still nothing is working. The problem seems to be that the fuel pump is not kicking in. The question is why ?!?
- although you sound very thorough, sounds like you making guesses here, whip out the multimeter and do some testing...
(just recheck my first remark)

5: When i turn on the ignition, i hear the double click of the fuel pump relay, but the pump does not start.
- how sure are you, that what you are hearing is the pump relay, Velo has 2...

That the motor is not aligned, I doubt very much. If this was the case, i should hve trouble locking or unlocking the car in all siotuations. Also, this would not be something that happens from one minute to the next, after a car wash.

I have checked both Relays with a MM and they are working fine. If the fuel pump relay was the problem, then i would not have gotten it started this morning, would i ?

The earth for the pump is in the boot

??? That, I did not know and is def worth checking out.

My apparent lack of knowledge, is due to the fact that i have ( can you believe it ) never owned a VW of any kind ! It is not my car. I was just supposed to sell it quickly. I still find it shocking that through trial and error and internet forums, I have been able to find out more about the car than the average mechanic seems to me able to tell me.

I had one guy here, who agreed to have quick look for 100 bucks. After 5 min he said " You need a new fuel pump, .. 100% . I can have the car picked up in an hour". Needless to say, I paid him and suggested that he go **** himself.

joggiep · Post by **joggiep** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:49 am

Bud where do you stay ? If in the Pta area maybe I can swing round and have a look but in my humble opinion that alarm is cause of the problem.

As for VW saying that the Alarm doesn't cut fuel ... k@k storie !

You have been pretty methodical in my opinion trying to pinpoint the problem and everytime it comes back to the Alarm. I'm unsure as to where the alarm box is on the newer citi but I would personally wook there first and see it that is not maybe wet still. have you tried parking the car in the sun with the bonnet open ?

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:20 am

joggiep wrote:Bud where do you stay ? If in the Pta area maybe I can swing round and have a look but in my humble opinion that alarm is cause of the problem.

As for VW saying that the Alarm doesn't cut fuel ... k@k storie !

You have been pretty methodical in my opinion trying to pinpoint the problem and everytime it comes back to the Alarm. I'm unsure as to where the alarm box is on the newer citi but I would personally wook there first and see it that is not maybe wet still. have you tried parking the car in the sun with the bonnet open ?

Its been just my luck, that Its been raining for ages now

Im in Hout Bay, Cape Town. I'm also still very suspicious about the link between alarm and fuel pump, unless the ground for the alarm, fuel pump and central locking are all in the same location ??!! :O

I'll have another go in an a bit. What Velofox said about the location of the ground for the pump, is very suspect, because despite the fact that opening and closing the boot seems to sort out the central locking and sometimes disarms the alarm, the closing boot might just create enough vibration to give the problem area a "wiggle"

As near insane as these bloody machines make me, I gotta admit, I kinda love this ****. The post success beer and feeling of triumph will be worth the trouble. Even if it takes another week. lol

joggiep · Post by **joggiep** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:37 am

Thundastruck wrote:As near insane as these bloody machines make me, I gotta admit, I kinda love this s**t. The post success beer and feeling of triumph will be worth the trouble. Even if it takes another week. lol

True that !

See if you can trace the ground.. might sort the issue out. Beeing down by the see doesn't help the earth point on the outside so It could solve the problem.

How long have tha car stood ? seeing as the owner left the country ? might be the beginning of a dying battery.. I know I know it started but I have seen a dying battery cause all types of funny stuff so worth a check.

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:38 am

Problem Solved

I will give details when I return from the Victory Weiss Beer.

Velofox · Post by **Velofox** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:42 am

hmmmm, fixed after my comment??

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:29 pm

Alrighty, *Hic*.

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for their input and free advice, especially Velofox for literally "pointing" me in the right direction, even though it still took a while to find the spot lol. "Id also like to thank my familiy, friends and co-workers for all the support, but most of all ..I'd like to thank God, for making me an Atheist !"

So, all jokes aside, it was indeed as the second poster already suspected, a faulty ground. I just never thought to check for one in the back of the damn car, as the car wash etc was mainly targeted at the engine bay. The problem was not water either, but simply a loose connection.

I was certain that the problem was linked to Alarm, central locking and fuel pump and that they must be able to influence each other and it turns out that they are all related.
The solution to the enigma, is that the Fuel pump and the Central locking, both share the same grounding point on the frame of the left tail light. Whenever the central locking locked and unlocked it also armed and disarmed the alarm. Slamming the boot, did indeed create enough vibration for the grounds to make contact. In other words, one loose screw = 2 loose grounds = caused 3 seperate problems. What a mission. So I suppose the alarm does not disable the fuel pump, but I guess one could always do it manually if needed

So, thanks again for all your help.

Rob

P.S: 2005 citi golf 1.4i 97 940 km licensed and ready for RW for sale in Cape Town. R45K

Velofox · Post by **Velofox** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:45 pm

lokl... where is my beer?

joggiep · Post by **joggiep** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:55 pm

Velofox wrote:lokl... where is my beer?

It's Collect !!

Glad you got it sorted.

AlexTDi · Post by **AlexTDi** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:13 pm

Thundastruck wrote:P.S: 2005 citi golf 1.4i 97 940 km licensed and ready for RW for sale in Cape Town. R45K

All this for a sales thread!!

Thundastruck · Post by **Thundastruck** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:27 pm

Car wash has messes up my fuel pump ?

Car wash has messes up my fuel pump ?

Re: Car wash has messes up my fuel pump ?

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