Another ABF Build (NOW ON PERFECT POWER)

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CRASH_IT
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Another ABF Build (NOW ON PERFECT POWER)

Post by CRASH_IT »

Just bought myself a ABF for my citi. :drool:

I wanna use my MP9 + Uni chip I know all the goodies I will need what I would like to know is
Can I up my rev limiter on my ecu with out loosing my key immobilizer? Who can do this?

Will MP9 run the smoothest on this motor, I was also thinking going PP management and running the 60-2. Just who going to set this up for me properly.
Last edited by CRASH_IT on Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
CURRENT RIDE
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EX
- 2014 Ford Fiesta ST
- 1993 1.8i CITI MP9 98HP 147NM @ KAR
NOW:2.0 ABF 117HP 158NM @Panics on XMS (SOLD)SNIFF
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by joggiep »

Where do you stay ?

I would suggest Panic for the PP aftermarket system.
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by panic-mechanic »

PM a guy called 'Shaun'. He has now had a bit of experience with both systems and can give you a balanced view. I'm biased.
Oh or 'monster' he's also had both on an ABF.
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by CRASH_IT »

Im in JHB.

Ok will ask him! Thanks panic.
CURRENT RIDE
2013 VW transporter 2.0TDI
2007 Audi S3

EX
- 2014 Ford Fiesta ST
- 1993 1.8i CITI MP9 98HP 147NM @ KAR
NOW:2.0 ABF 117HP 158NM @Panics on XMS (SOLD)SNIFF
http://www.vwclub.co.za/phpbb3/viewtopi ... 3&t=108203
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by Smok3X »

Damn you Aftermarket guys beat me to it lol. I am MP9 Biased ofcourse, but it must be FRC, as the tuning is so much more advanced than a Unichip and you can set the limiter to anything you want! Let me just give my 2c... My ABF Citi is my only car & its reliability is rock solid, smoothness for an everyday car is amazing! I start up and go on cold mornings faultlessly everytime and in traffic its an absolute breeze! An FRC MP9 ABF will make the same power an aftermarket ABF will, so you dont have to worry about that part of it, what you do have to worry about is getting that VR6 OBD2 TB! As for Performance, lets just say FRC Live on the road tuning cant be beaten in my opinion. Fuel efficiency... I have managed 720km off the Citi fuel tank on long distance, yes I am serious! And I average around 500+ KM with just Urban driving and thats with alot of spirited fun! If you want to know more about it, PM Pluto on the forum. Personally I recommend FRC MP9, as I am very happy with mine and the service I get from FRC, Pluto STILL phones me once a week just to see whats happening lol
Current:
Leon CUPRA - 2.0TFSi K04--> Rides Thread
169WKW@Dark Artz - Stock
229WKW@Dark Artz - RevO 2+

Ex:
Ibiza CUPRA - 1.8 20V - Hybrid Turbo-->Rides Thread
Revo:182KW and 399NM@Experience
ABF Citi Golf - 2.0L 16V--->Rides Thread
FRC - 124KW and 198NM@Auto Trix
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by panic-mechanic »

what you do have to worry about is getting that VR6 OBD2 TB
hehe - wait till that starts giving you trouble :wink:
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by Monster »

What is this "live on the road tuning"?
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by PoLonY »

Monster wrote:What is this "live on the road tuning"?
that would be modifying the MP9 parameters in "real time" ie laptop plugged in and change the map whilst driving on the road, in real world conditions, not on a dyno...
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by BlueBlob »

PoLonY wrote:
Monster wrote:What is this "live on the road tuning"?
that would be modifying the MP9 parameters in "real time" ie laptop plugged in and change the map whilst driving on the road, in real world conditions, not on a dyno...
:eek:

That's awesome! Maybe I should install MP9 in something... Mmm...
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by Monster »

So that is pretty much what i do when i go for a drive and playing with the management.
Awesome!!!!
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by Smok3X »

Yip the Oxygen sensor is plugged into the exhaust and various other readings come through the ECU and the car is tuned Live... While you drive. Its arguably more accurate, as tuning is done in actual day to day driving conditions, so for example, there is more air flowing while you drive than when on a dyno, so the water temps are better... And MP9 likes that.

As for the VR6 TB... Sshh mine has been perfect so far!
Current:
Leon CUPRA - 2.0TFSi K04--> Rides Thread
169WKW@Dark Artz - Stock
229WKW@Dark Artz - RevO 2+

Ex:
Ibiza CUPRA - 1.8 20V - Hybrid Turbo-->Rides Thread
Revo:182KW and 399NM@Experience
ABF Citi Golf - 2.0L 16V--->Rides Thread
FRC - 124KW and 198NM@Auto Trix
1/4 Mile:14.61s
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by panic-mechanic »

How would you like it if the management does that for you? - all the time - every time the engine is running? without you having to do anything?.
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by Monster »

Thats what i want!!!!!!!
Oh wait, thats what i've got!!!!!!
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by panic-mechanic »

Blueblob wrote
Maybe I should install MP9 in something
mmm - me thinks you've forgotten already what happened the last time you had one..... KABOOM - clack clack clack !!!!! ring any bells?.
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by SHAUN »

panic-mechanic wrote:How would you like it if the management does that for you? - all the time - every time the engine is running? without you having to do anything?.
Wait, what? Seriously? Damn that must help alot with feul consumption, something like 13km/L :lol:

@CRASH-IT...ill answer your PM a little later when i have more time on my hands, busy installing MP9 on my lawnmower but the thing doesnt wanna start....oh wait thats nothing new.
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by dazza »

SHAUN wrote: @CRASH-IT...ill answer your PM a little later when i have more time on my hands, busy installing MP9 on my lawnmower but the thing doesnt wanna start....oh wait thats nothing new.
Have a brandy, fit the VR6 OBD2 TB and I am sure it will start eventually. If you do not come right I will bring more brandy :lol:
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by panic-mechanic »

Actually - I don't know what I'm going on about. I LOVE mp9. That managament is solely responsible for more work for me that any other that was ever installed in cars. That is in the line of broken motors and AFM systems and piggyback chips that I have sold. I'm very thankfull that VW decided to put it in so many cars.
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by Smok3X »

Guys guys guys... Come now. If you had a bad experience with your Unichip based MP9's... Theres nothing I can say to change your opinion. Times have changed... You got to move up with new technology... The bottom line is... And nobody can argue this point... An FRC Tuned MP9 ECU WILL get you the same if not better performance from your engine and the same goes for fuel economy... For LESS than an aftermarket management system will cost you... Even more so if you running an 8v motor! VW and BOSCH spent millions on developing the system... The R&D that went into it, the ECU, the wiring looms...etc Who are we to say it isnt good enough... But if you want to spend R5000 + on a Management system and throw away your MP9 goodies... By all means go for it! I was building on a budget and FRC MP9 Suited me perfectly... Oh and im still waiting for an Aftermarket Stock ABF to beat my drag time... Full car and weight on pump gas... 14.7s... For HALF the price of Aftermarket, plus rock solid reliability from Bosch and everyday efficiency and a simple plug and play and tune... Sounds pretty good to me.
Current:
Leon CUPRA - 2.0TFSi K04--> Rides Thread
169WKW@Dark Artz - Stock
229WKW@Dark Artz - RevO 2+

Ex:
Ibiza CUPRA - 1.8 20V - Hybrid Turbo-->Rides Thread
Revo:182KW and 399NM@Experience
ABF Citi Golf - 2.0L 16V--->Rides Thread
FRC - 124KW and 198NM@Auto Trix
1/4 Mile:14.61s
1ST Place - 4AF2 Margate 31st Oct 2010

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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by Demon Tweaked »

Smok3X wrote:Guys guys guys... Come now. If you had a bad experience with your Unichip based MP9's... Theres nothing I can say to change your opinion. Times have changed... You got to move up with new technology... The bottom line is... And nobody can argue this point... An FRC Tuned MP9 ECU WILL get you the same if not better performance from your engine and the same goes for fuel economy... For LESS than an aftermarket management system will cost you... Even more so if you running an 8v motor! VW and BOSCH spent millions on developing the system... The R&D that went into it, the ECU, the wiring looms...etc Who are we to say it isnt good enough... But if you want to spend R5000 + on a Management system and throw away your MP9 goodies... By all means go for it! I was building on a budget and FRC MP9 Suited me perfectly... Oh and im still waiting for an Aftermarket Stock ABF to beat my drag time... Full car and weight on pump gas... 14.7s... For HALF the price of Aftermarket, plus rock solid reliability from Bosch and everyday efficiency and a simple plug and play and tune... Sounds pretty good to me.
Have you tried any AFM or compared the results to your current setup?
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by CRASH_IT »

panic-mechanic wrote:How would you like it if the management does that for you? - all the time - every time the engine is running? without you having to do anything?.
Are you talking about PP panic?
dazza wrote:
SHAUN wrote: @CRASH-IT...ill answer your PM a little later when i have more time on my hands, busy installing MP9 on my lawnmower but the thing doesnt wanna start....oh wait thats nothing new.
Have a brandy, fit the VR6 OBD2 TB and I am sure it will start eventually. If you do not come right I will bring more brandy :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: can I come 2! :lol: Thanks Shaun

Smok3X wrote: what you do have to worry about is getting that VR6 OBD2 TB!
4 sure cant find one anywhere!
CURRENT RIDE
2013 VW transporter 2.0TDI
2007 Audi S3

EX
- 2014 Ford Fiesta ST
- 1993 1.8i CITI MP9 98HP 147NM @ KAR
NOW:2.0 ABF 117HP 158NM @Panics on XMS (SOLD)SNIFF
http://www.vwclub.co.za/phpbb3/viewtopi ... 3&t=108203
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by panic-mechanic »

Times have changed... You got to move up with new technology..

You are absolutely spot on and guess what. MP9 is not a move up - it's a move down. Mp9 has been on the market for over 12 years and it's still exactly the same. There are many more sophisticated aftermarket managements than MP9 can ever hope to be. MP9 does not even read a lambda probe of ANY kind and it's really outdated by now - hence the reason even VW dropped it on the later citis when they had to comply to emissions rules. Motronic ME7 or ME9 - now you are talking if you are saying move up. Even the motronic that was on the VR LONG before mp9 came into exitance was way beyond. MP9 was basically something that was just better than a caburettor and slightly more advanced than a digifant that could be made chaply and installed in millions of budget cars. You really have to take a bit of a look around you if you believe MP9 is cutting edge technology...

But let me say this - on a stock daily driver that has to trundle to work and back it is perfectly fine. On a highly modifed engine it is sadly lacking. You got lucky and FRC went to a bit of trouble to make you a nice map. Trust me - that does not happen often and I lie not to you if I tell you that I have replaced over 55 mp9 systems in my time. But enjoy it while everything is working. As I said - something will go wrong at some stage.
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'09 Touareg 3l TDI
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by Smok3X »

Nope I have not tried AFM on my setup, I could never spend R5K on that! The extra money saved from going MP9, I could put towards some VDL CAMS lol! But guys from Dubworx, TuneServ, Old Dutch Racing and Speed Shop have all said they are very impressed with the results FRC have achieved on my ABF, as many of them swear by Dicktator or Perfect Power and never thought MP9 was capable of this, especially on an ABF. Infact most of them didnt believe the 155HP / 115KW ATW... But after getting some real performance results at the drags... I got nothing but Congratz from them all! Give or take 1HP or 0.1s the differences are small... But the price and reliability... In my opinion cant be beaten. Also remember that here in Durbs, we dont have Panic Mechanic here... There are lots of guys who can tell you horror stories about switching to AFM... Cold start issues, Idle issues, bad fuel consumption, break downs and more! Yes AFM is only as good as its Tuner, so I am not saying AFM is like that... Im just saying there is a simpler cheaper way of getting the same if not better results on MP9.
Current:
Leon CUPRA - 2.0TFSi K04--> Rides Thread
169WKW@Dark Artz - Stock
229WKW@Dark Artz - RevO 2+

Ex:
Ibiza CUPRA - 1.8 20V - Hybrid Turbo-->Rides Thread
Revo:182KW and 399NM@Experience
ABF Citi Golf - 2.0L 16V--->Rides Thread
FRC - 124KW and 198NM@Auto Trix
1/4 Mile:14.61s
1ST Place - 4AF2 Margate 31st Oct 2010

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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by panic-mechanic »

CRASH_IT wrote
Are you talking about PP panic?
Yes - more specifically the XMS4 system.
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'09 Touareg 3l TDI
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by panic-mechanic »

Ok so you say you saved on installing the mp9. Now give us hard numbers please - no lying now!!!
1) price of the box
2) price of the harness
3) cost of installation into the car.
4) cost of the flash of the 2l map
5) Cost of the FRC tune
6) cost of the VR6 throttle body
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'09 Touareg 3l TDI
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

Perfect Power dealer. I do dyno tuning.
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Re: Another ABF Build

Post by Monster »

Mp9 is perfectly fine IF you can get hold of a OBDII throttle body and IF you don't go too wild on the cams and IF the Throttle body lasts.
I have never had any problems with my mp9 except that it could not handle boost but i did see what it did to Shaun's car.

The big issue here is your claim that FRC did a "real time on the road setup" to get it perfectly.
That is exactly what is to be done to AFM.
And then the AFM tunes itself for best performance.
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