8v Heads & Engine Codes

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PoLonY
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by PoLonY »

Smok3X wrote:I may be wrong... But the reliability of a 1.4 bored that far... No matter what any mechanic told me... I would not be comfortable driving it around everyday... Yet alone racing it!
huh this makes no sense, its not gonna affect reliabilty, AFAIK Atreyu1609 did this rebore and it lasted fine, even with numerous track days, TLGP's etc etc...

Smok3X wrote:And I still have room for mods and a perfect setup for a Turbo one day...
you turbo that ABF and ill personally come find you and beat you with a 16V camshaft, that motor is a N/A motor leave it N/A!
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by Smok3X »

Im sure if done properly it will be fine... Personally I feel the reliability will be compromised slightly...even if its a negligible amount. I have heard lots of storys of failed bottom ends after being rebored or rebuilt! Have you ever heard of a standard NA Motor breaking the bottom end? To each his own I guess...

Its just that from Factory a motor has so much margin of safety built into the design... Why push that down and drive a car that could be a ticking time bomb! One conrod bolt not torqued properly or something stupid like that... Bang!

As for the Turbo... One day... When Im very rich hehe! For now the goal is to get it to a 13second Quarter Mile on NA!
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by sean919 »

Smok3x - I agree with u there, there is more probability of something going wrong on a rebuild than there is on an unopened stock motor, but when u need more power and can only get it by doing it that way...
I have heard of lots of those conversions running for ages without a hiccup tho.

But... I've spoken to my insurance broker and they've said my insurer won't charge me ANYTHING more, and they might even cover the value of the upgrade for a small additional fee (of like R50)! :eek: I totally wasnt expecting that from them! So, I called up the guy who's sourcing my stuff & he's given me a quote on an import 2E, 288 cam, etc etc. Like the sound of the quote and to say I'm excited is a total understatement. :cool:

As I said - I would LOVE to get hold of an ABF, but at the rate they're going at now, it'll increase my total costs by ~R7.5k. Which is hectic :crazy:. But if anyone knows anyone who's selling one for a decent amount - I'm IN!
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by tamper_man »

sean919 wrote:But... I've spoken to my insurance broker and they've said my insurer won't charge me ANYTHING more, and they might even cover the value of the upgrade for a small additional fee (of like R50)! :eek: I totally wasnt expecting that from them!
That's cool. Just remember to get the quoted bit in writing from your broker before committing to the upgrade.
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by CRASH_IT »

panic-mechanic wrote:Uhm - actually you CANNOT stick with the 1.4 head for now. 1.4 head on a 2l blcok will give you CR in excess of 13
:1 so you are sh!t out of luck there.
:hijack: K now Im worried. I have a 1.8i MP9 I have checked on my brothers 1.4i Melociti and our head codes match! Should I be worried. :shock: What is a 1.4i head code? The car runs very well and supa reliable. It my weekend cab so gets hammered every time I drive her. Why cant you run 13:1 compression? My MX Bike runs that on pump gas!
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by MacMan »

Smok3X wrote:Im sure if done properly it will be fine... Personally I feel the reliability will be compromised slightly...even if its a negligible amount. I have heard lots of storys of failed bottom ends after being rebored or rebuilt! Have you ever heard of a standard NA Motor breaking the bottom end? To each his own I guess...

Its just that from Factory a motor has so much margin of safety built into the design... Why push that down and drive a car that could be a ticking time bomb! One conrod bolt not torqued properly or something stupid like that... Bang!
I disagree with you. Building a motor that will last is not rocket science. Most factory-built engines are mass-produced with a compromise between cost, reliability, economy and performance. For example, the guys at Dynamic Balancing told me that VW manufacture / balance their rotating assemblies to within a tolerance of 7 grams.

When I built my motor they balanced the rotating assembly to within 0.1 grams. The crankshaft (OEM MK3 GTi) was 1.17 grams out, they got it down to 0.132 grams. The flywheel was 4.45 grams out, they got it down to 0.182 grams. The intermediate shaft pulley (OEM pulley) was 6.45 grams out, they got it down to 0.064 grams. The difference between the lightest and heaviest big-end on the OEM VW conrods was 4.0 grams , they made them all the same weight as the lightest one to within 0.001 grams. The difference between the lightest and heaviest small-end on the OEM VW conrods was 1.7 grams, they made them all the same weight as the lightest one to within 0.001 grams.

So while a factory-built motor may be pretty good, there is still lots of room for improvement.

PS. My motor (which was the first motor I ever built, in my back yard and I am far from an expert mechanic) was converted from 1.6 carb to 2.0 MP9 using the same short block and same conrods, and standard over-the-counter parts, has seen 7200rpm daily, many many drag races, track days and TLGPs and it hasn't missed a beat in 100k kms and it doesn't use a drop of oil between services. Chalk up one for the rebuilds. :driving:

Yes import motors are the easier drop-in option, BUT you never know how much mileage the motor has done or how it was treated by the person who had it before, unlike a rebuilt motor that has 0 kms on it and you can treat it properly from the beginning.

But like you said, each to his own. :cool:
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by BrettS »

My race car's motor is a 1.6l block bored out to a 2l and the the only time it broke was when the fuel pump packed up and it ran lean. :bang: Also reved it to 9k for 8 laps before it blew.(stuck in 3rd gear)
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by sean919 »

tamper_man wrote:
sean919 wrote:But... I've spoken to my insurance broker and they've said my insurer won't charge me ANYTHING more, and they might even cover the value of the upgrade for a small additional fee (of like R50)! :eek: I totally wasnt expecting that from them!
That's cool. Just remember to get the quoted bit in writing from your broker before committing to the upgrade.
Ya, thanx man. I've requested confirmation in writing this morning. Will defo wait until it's confirmed before I commit.
MacMan wrote:I disagree with you. Building a motor that will last is not rocket science.
I was very keen on doing the conversion at first (inspired massively by your own conversion) mainly just to have and do a custom rebuild, but fitting an import is cheaper and it gives me the backup of having my 1.4 available if something goes wrong. (And also the extra cash if I can sell it)

One other thing - the brokers did mention that if it get's classified as a Code 3, then it'll reduce my car value by 30%. Do you know what would cause this? Merely changing engine (numbers) and clearing with licensing dept has no affect right?
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by panic-mechanic »

Changing an engine number has no effect on a car's status. It needed to have been scrapped and re-registered to become a code 3.
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by sean919 »

panic-mechanic wrote:Changing an engine number has no effect on a car's status. It needed to have been scrapped and re-registered to become a code 3.
Awesome! Thanks for clearing that up Panic.
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by Smok3X »

You know what MacMAn... You have given me something to think about :hi: I never thought of it that way :smile: The other thing is that... for me, playing around with the bottom end now will cost me money and the benefit from a well balanced bottom end wont be as noticeable as some head work and cams would be... So maybe not right now, but definately in the future. Thanks for that, you learn something everyday.
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by sean919 »

Just got confirmation in writing from insurance. To add the R10k worth of upgrade to the value of the car will cost me an extra R40 pm... Definitely worth it! So, come monday - project 2E's gonna get underway!

Thanks for advice here guys! Will start a my rides thread with the work...
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by VW SPEED »

Smok3X wrote:I may be wrong... But the reliability of a 1.4 bored that far... No matter what any mechanic told me... I would not be comfortable driving it around everyday... Yet alone racing it!

Panic's rule of never build what you can buy... Is an absolute Golden rule in my books! You can have your 1.4 rebord to 2.0 and hide it from the insurance... But what happens when they see the branch and exhaust? Or airfilter? Or any of the other mods... They still wont pay out!

Go 2.0 8v 2e/ADY atleast... And 6 months down the line after you spent R3.5k for headwork and another R2k on CAM and Vernier and R1k or so on a Remap each time and your R1k roughly on labour...not counting Misc items and assuming it all works first time... You sitting on R7k EASY of extra money spent on an 8v. Now you sitting with a 2.0 8v that cost you roughly R11k! And then along I come with 10KW more than you from a stock motor that cost me R9k to start with... And I still have room for mods and a perfect setup for a Turbo one day...

Il say it again... ABF FTW!!! Oh my ABF makes 115KW ATW or 155HP ATW here at the Coast in Durbs. Dont bother with Dynos... Its about on the road performance... And trust me... 8v's have nothing on 16v's after 2nd gear... NOTHING!

I have 1.4 CITI.COM made 2.0 8v , very nice car , 87 kw at RBTS, reliable very nice to drive used for 2 years as daily drive, more expensive than 2E to convert.
2nd car is Golf 3 with ABF,FFZ box and Dictator, tuned by RBTS, 94 kw, my current daily drive, nice and smooth. For weekends I prefer the 8v.
Might swap motors at a later stage.
Both motors was build by the same person.


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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by malcolm.nel »

Can i fit 1.4i head on my ady long block and make any difference in performance?
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Re: 8v Heads & Engine Codes

Post by PapaJo »

malcolm.nel wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:52 pm Can i fit 1.4i head on my ady long block and make any difference in performance?
8 year revival.

No it has smaller valves and combustion chambers. Will raise the compression causing oinging and kack performance due to the smaller valves.

If you want more performance, take your head for a gasflow job and add a 276 cam.
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