MK7 R judder when brake creeping in traffic

[panic-mechanic]

Yes one has to make the distinction between ACTUAL torque converter autos and DSG type autos.
ZF makes the S-tronic which is a longitudinal DSG box. But the execution of how it does this and how it's made is completely different to the transverse dsg found in golfs and audi A3.
There is no dry clutch longitudinal gearbox. SO the DQ700 which is found in the Audi A3 is basically the Borg warner built DSG from VW but renamed to AUDI moniker.
BUT ALL DSG boxes (wet or dry clutch) uses a manual style clutch that is electronically and mechatronically engaged. IE a computer does the clutch control instead of a human. But creeping forward in both of them is doing exactly what you would do with your foot when you drive a manual - IE it slips the clutch. Which is something that is also just as bad for a manual except the clutches is orders of magnitude cheaper on an actual manual.
This is why you feel that slight lurch or grab as the computer with the help of hydraulics engages the clutch.

On an ACTUAL auto there is a torque converter which is designed to allow slip and you can creep all day as it is a hydraulic type device with no actual physical contact of any components.

[Killerwatt]

Just to clarify. There are indeed wet type clutches used on the longitudinal VAG engines. Dry clutches are usually found on the lower performance models as they offer slightly better fuel efficiency but cannot handle as much torque as the dry clutches. The DQ250, DQ380 and D500 are all wet clutch boxes used on the mk5, mk6, mk7, A3, etc. The mk7r is a wet clutch gearbox.

Back to the post. Are you sure its a shudder from the clutch? Could it not be something related to engine movement or the drivetrain? Could you maybe post a video showing what happens.

[Tman21]

Im sure its not, I just stumbled across these and was more a ref. to the dry/wet but also not sure if the latest boxes are listed above?

Jup there are 3 different Quattro systems and FWD for S-tronic alone.

[Luctor]

Just to clarify. There are indeed wet type clutches used on the longitudinal VAG engines. Dry clutches are usually found on the lower performance models as they offer slightly better fuel efficiency but cannot handle as much torque as the dry clutches. The DQ250, DQ380 and D500 are all wet clutch boxes used on the mk5, mk6, mk7, A3, etc. The mk7r is a wet clutch gearbox.

Back to the post. Are you sure its a shudder from the clutch? Could it not be something related to engine movement or the drivetrain? Could you maybe post a video showing what happens.

Not something a video would pick up tbh. It's more of a feel thing. What I've gathered is that creeping in a DSG is more akin to doing the same in a manual. Which I guess would always feel a little off. Or as if it's putting strain on the clutch. There's absolutely no judder when accelerator is engaged. Which would probably be a better indicator of slippage?



Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[PapaJo]

I’ve till now not experienced any judder. I’m n just over 12k on the clock. I do drive the occasional “race mode” to get the louder farts. Maybe that helps to prevent some ports getting stagnat with oil that doesn’t circulate on the selection circuits although the clutches are dry type.

Ask for a reload or new version upgrade of gearbox software during your next service.

[Neuk]

I’ve till now not experienced any judder. I’m n just over 12k on the clock. I do drive the occasional “race mode” to get the louder farts. Maybe that helps to prevent some ports getting stagnat with oil that doesn’t circulate on the selection circuits although the clutches are dry type.

Ask for a reload or new version upgrade of gearbox software during your next service.

I have been told on a few occasions by VW staff to drive my car harder so the gearbox doesn't get lazy

[Luctor]

I’ve till now not experienced any judder. I’m n just over 12k on the clock. I do drive the occasional “race mode” to get the louder farts. Maybe that helps to prevent some ports getting stagnat with oil that doesn’t circulate on the selection circuits although the clutches are dry type.

Ask for a reload or new version upgrade of gearbox software during your next service.

Will do. Thank you.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[Killerwatt]

At the very least vw can do a clutch recalibration.

[///M]

My wife has a 2018 GTI, bought brand new, has around 4000km on now. It does exactly what the OP is saying. I also have a 2016 Polo TSI DSG, bought brand new, currently getting Gearbox replaced at VW. Clutches were changed less than 10000km ago.

Vw sucks balls.

[Luctor]

My wife has a 2018 GTI, bought brand new, has around 4000km on now. It does exactly what the OP is saying. I also have a 2016 Polo TSI DSG, bought brand new, currently getting Gearbox replaced at VW. Clutches were changed less than 10000km ago.

Vw sucks balls.

How bad is it? Is the juddering hectic or subtle?

[///M]

My wife has a 2018 GTI, bought brand new, has around 4000km on now. It does exactly what the OP is saying. I also have a 2016 Polo TSI DSG, bought brand new, currently getting Gearbox replaced at VW. Clutches were changed less than 10000km ago.

Vw sucks balls.

How bad is it? Is the juddering hectic or subtle?

It's enough to make me grate my balls. Does that answer your question?

[Wolf Mk2 16V]

Must drive like a **** to **** up two brand new cars' boxes

[Wolf Mk2 16V]

You wear out your shoes from the inside?

[Adam_Mech]

You wear out your shoes from the inside?

[Adam_Mech]

I recently bought an Audi A3 S-tronic and within a week of a owning it, the same issue cropped up. After trolling the webs, I came to the conclusion the clutches were definitely slipping especially when changing between the following gears: 1-2; 2-3. After a visit to the dealership, the "clutches were re-calibrated" and changes were once again smooth. A few days later the same thing happened, and there was a very noticeable slippage when changing from 5-6 ...Fortunately (for lack of a better word) the car was written off by the police while I was on my way to have this issue taken care of by the dealership. Now I'm left with no clutch slipping issues and cruising around with my TT (Ten Toes) while I await delivery of my new car this afternoon

I cant speak for the VW DSG clutches, but this is a fairly common problem on the S-Tronic 'boxes and i firmly believe this is caused by a design flaw on Audi's part, since the engine torque output of 250N.m is equal to the clutch torque limit of 250N.m, such slippage is bound to happen under these conditions. As a "fix" it was suggested that in stop-go traffic conditions it's advisable to drive in Manual mode as this places less stress on the clutches.

[Neuk]

My wife has a 2018 GTI, bought brand new, has around 4000km on now. It does exactly what the OP is saying. I also have a 2016 Polo TSI DSG, bought brand new, currently getting Gearbox replaced at VW. Clutches were changed less than 10000km ago.

Vw sucks balls.

Coincidence that both cars are in the same household?

[Neuk]

I recently bought an Audi A3 S-tronic and within a week of a owning it, the same issue cropped up. After trolling the webs, I came to the conclusion the clutches were definitely slipping especially when changing between the following gears: 1-2; 2-3. After a visit to the dealership, the "clutches were re-calibrated" and changes were once again smooth. A few days later the same thing happened, and there was a very noticeable slippage when changing from 5-6 ...Fortunately (for lack of a better word) the car was written off by the police while I was on my way to have this issue taken care of by the dealership. Now I'm left with no clutch slipping issues and cruising around with my TT (Ten Toes) while I await delivery of my new car this afternoon

I haven't noticed any slipping in my R but I do have some hesitation/jerking at times when accelerating a little harder than normal in D.

I cant speak for the VW DSG clutches, but this is a fairly common problem on the S-Tronic 'boxes and i firmly believe this is caused by a design flaw on Audi's part, since the engine torque output of 250N.m is equal to the clutch torque limit of 250N.m, such slippage is bound to happen under these conditions. As a "fix" it was suggested that in stop-go traffic conditions it's advisable to drive in Manual mode as this places less stress on the clutches.

The A3 and Golf gearboxes are the same DSG units from the same supplier so it is not an Audi design flaw. That fix is laughable though, any automatic gearbox should be able to handle normal driving conditions in D.

[G-spot]

but this is a fairly common problem on the S-Tronic 'boxes and i firmly believe this is caused by a design flaw on Audi's part, since the engine torque output of 250N.m is equal to the clutch torque limit of 250N.m,

Uhm... I can only assume that you are referring to the DQ200 box with such a low nm figure. But this is also not true. Those boxes are rated to 320nm on stock software before they start slipping.
I had one with 320nm on stock DSG sw and it was fine, I also know of a few that ran way over that with upgraded software without issues.
But I can also say the DQ200 has never really been a problem free box

[Adam_Mech]

Uhm... I can only assume that you are referring to the DQ200 box with such a low nm figure. But this is also not true. Those boxes are rated to 320nm on stock software before they start slipping.
I had one with 320nm on stock DSG sw and it was fine, I also know of a few that ran way over that with upgraded software without issues.
But I can also say the DQ200 has never really been a problem free box
[/quote]

That's correct, it's the DQ200 dry clutch 7-speed 'box I'm referring to. I believe it's the same as found in the Polo Tsi. My conclusion is based on several scientific articles regarding the DQ200 'box which states the "maximum torque rating is 250N.m and engine output power of 125kW" if you wish I can email you the articles?

The point I'm trying to make is that from a mechanical design point of view its poor practice to have the torque input to the clutch equal it's torque limit.

[jtm]

I recently bought an Audi A3 S-tronic and within a week of a owning it, the same issue cropped up. After trolling the webs, I came to the conclusion the clutches were definitely slipping especially when changing between the following gears: 1-2; 2-3. After a visit to the dealership, the "clutches were re-calibrated" and changes were once again smooth. A few days later the same thing happened, and there was a very noticeable slippage when changing from 5-6 ...Fortunately (for lack of a better word) the car was written off by the police while I was on my way to have this issue taken care of by the dealership. Now I'm left with no clutch slipping issues and cruising around with my TT (Ten Toes) while I await delivery of my new car this afternoon

I cant speak for the VW DSG clutches, but this is a fairly common problem on the S-Tronic 'boxes and i firmly believe this is caused by a design flaw on Audi's part, since the engine torque output of 250N.m is equal to the clutch torque limit of 250N.m, such slippage is bound to happen under these conditions. As a "fix" it was suggested that in stop-go traffic conditions it's advisable to drive in Manual mode as this places less stress on the clutches.

The shuddering issue on the dq200 7spd is common. Had it on my ex pgti.

Atleast SAPS did you a favour

[G-spot]

Uhm... I can only assume that you are referring to the DQ200 box with such a low nm figure. But this is also not true. Those boxes are rated to 320nm on stock software before they start slipping.
I had one with 320nm on stock DSG sw and it was fine, I also know of a few that ran way over that with upgraded software without issues.
But I can also say the DQ200 has never really been a problem free box

That's correct, it's the DQ200 dry clutch 7-speed 'box I'm referring to. I believe it's the same as found in the Polo Tsi. My conclusion is based on several scientific articles regarding the DQ200 'box which states the "maximum torque rating is 250N.m and engine output power of 125kW" if you wish I can email you the articles?

The point I'm trying to make is that from a mechanical design point of view its poor practice to have the torque input to the clutch equal it's torque limit.

Well ****, Better go sue VW/audi then for selling me a car with 132kw with a gearbox that's only rated to handle 125kw

Your "scientific articles" are wrong, VW would never develop and market a car without tolerances on mechanical components.
VAG fitted the DQ200 to cars with up to 250nm, that doesn't mean its rated to only handle 250nm, My Pgti had 132kw from factory. And if that was true the box would never have managed the 163kw and 320nm mine eventually had

[Luctor]

Quick update: It seems to have improved. I noticed in Sport mode brake creep was way smoother. Is it possible the previous owner had the car in Sport mode all the time and it adjusted his driving style? I drive in either comfort or normal mode in traffic, and like I said it feels better.

I'm also avoiding brake creeping as much as possible.

Not going to lie, from some of the replies in this thread I'm glad I bought the extended maintenance plan.

[panic-mechanic]

This is a semi nice article that explains some of the stuff i tried to.
https://axleaddict.com/cars/DSG-Transmission-Variants

[Neuk]

Not going to lie, from some of the replies in this thread I'm glad I bought the extended maintenance plan.

I wouldn't own a modern car without some form of maintenance plan.

[///M]

My wife has a 2018 GTI, bought brand new, has around 4000km on now. It does exactly what the OP is saying. I also have a 2016 Polo TSI DSG, bought brand new, currently getting Gearbox replaced at VW. Clutches were changed less than 10000km ago.

Vw sucks balls.

Coincidence that both cars are in the same household?

I have 3 VAG DSG cars, and my F80 M3 is Dct. All dual clutch transmission. All 3 VAGs
have gearbox related issues, and the M, which is punished to the max whenever driven, has no issue whatsoever.

Coincidence?