MK7 R judder when brake creeping in traffic

[Luctor]

Hey all,

I've done extensive googling and searched this forum. So far nothing conclusive or people with exactly the same issue I'm
experiencing.

I recently purchased a '16 7 R with 36 000km. Car's in mint condition save for a couple of minor creeks, that according to a quick Google search, isn't all that uncommon.

My question is with regards to the dsg. When creeping in traffic at low rpm in 1st there's a very, very slight judder, as I lift my foot off the brake. So creeping up hill using the brake, not actually accelerating. As soon as I accelerate it disappears. It's only when brake creeping. And it is only for a second then it goes away.

Is this normal? Is it a slipping clutch? Is the car just not used to driving in creeping traffic, considering it's been on a dealership floor for a while?

The dealership ensured me the car was never raced, dragged or driven hard. Apparently it was used mostly for long distance travel. They're a reputable dealership who specialise in luxury vehicles, and I insisted it go for an 80 point check at VW which they were happy to do, and it came back with perfect results. I haven't brought this up with them yet.

I hope I'm just being paranoid. The car is due for a service in August where I'll bring it up.

Anyone else have experience with this? I've heard the R is a bit "rough" in city driving. Is this what they mean?

[Neuk]

My '15 R has a few of the minor creeks that you mention but I can't recall a judder when creeping in traffic before accelerating. I will keep an eye out for it though and report back, I have found the DSG gearbox to be jittery/stuttery at times in D which I have been told is normal.

The dealership ensured me the car was never raced, dragged or driven hard.

I call BS.

[Rascal69]

when the clutches wore in the DTC box on my wife's car (not a vw but exact same issue) , It use to start to judder when brake creeping in traffic... The car was bought new and had 15000km's on it when they changed the clutches out. car is fine now and on 30000km's.

[Luctor]

My '15 R has a few of the minor creeks that you mention but I can't recall a judder when creeping in traffic before accelerating. I will keep an eye out for it though and report back, I have found the DSG gearbox to be jittery/stuttery at times in D which I have been told is normal.

The dealership ensured me the car was never raced, dragged or driven hard.

I call BS.

Yea rear driver's side door creeks a little and I had the sun visor rattle which I believe is common. Fixed with some felt.

The judder is so subtle I'm hoping it's nothing. Maybe judder is too strong a word. It's just a bit shaky split seconds after I lift my foot.



What makes you think they're bullsh***ing about racing it?

[Luctor]

when the clutches wore in the DTC box on my wife's car (not a vw but exact same issue) , It use to start to judder when brake creeping in traffic... The car was bought new and had 15000km's on it when they changed the clutches out. car is fine now and on 30000km's.

From my research I get the gist that the DSG box is prone to faults. And expensive to fix.

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[Neuk]

My '15 R has a few of the minor creeks that you mention but I can't recall a judder when creeping in traffic before accelerating. I will keep an eye out for it though and report back, I have found the DSG gearbox to be jittery/stuttery at times in D which I have been told is normal.

The dealership ensured me the car was never raced, dragged or driven hard.

I call BS.

Yea rear driver's side door creeks a little and I had the sun visor rattle which I believe is common. Fixed with some felt.

The judder is so subtle I'm hoping it's nothing. Maybe judder is too strong a word. It's just a bit shaky split seconds after I lift my foot.

Yep, one or two of my doors have a creak, the sun visor rattle I sorted myself and the suspension creaks I presume are due to the cold morning temperatures coupled with a stiff suspension setup and low profile, large tyres. The roads in Jhb don't help at all either...

What makes you think they're bullsh***ing about racing it?

I wasn't being specific about racing but I fail to believe a car like an R would never have been driven hard. Maybe it wasn't raced or dragged on a track but it has been driven hard, at some stage.

[Luctor]

Oh for sure. I get you. How hard can an R be driven before the clutch starts giving issues?

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[Neuk]

when the clutches wore in the DTC box on my wife's car (not a vw but exact same issue) , It use to start to judder when brake creeping in traffic... The car was bought new and had 15000km's on it when they changed the clutches out. car is fine now and on 30000km's.

From my research I get the gist that the DSG box is prone to faults. And expensive to fix.

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Yes and no, it was very common when they were first introduced, issues are less common these days.

[Neuk]

Oh for sure. I get you. How hard can an R be driven before the clutch starts giving issues?

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In my opinion you would have to drive it bloody hard and often to give massive clutch issues. I have only heard of it once on a low mileage car but it was one of the press vehicles first brought in to SA when the MkVII was introduced.

[Howie-WP]

The judder is so subtle I'm hoping it's nothing. Maybe judder is too strong a word. It's just a bit shaky split seconds after I lift my foot.

You sure it is not just normal DSG operation with the clutches engaging / disengaging? Does it change when you change the method you go from brake to accelerator? (Obviously not tested while in traffic, but you know what I mean....)

[Luctor]

Oh for sure. I get you. How hard can an R be driven before the clutch starts giving issues?

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In my opinion you would have to drive it bloody hard and often to give massive clutch issues. I have only heard of it once on a low mileage car but it was one of the press vehicles first brought in to SA when the MkVII was introduced.

That's the thing. All the discussions I'm finding that are even remotely similar to mine are pre-2012!

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[Luctor]

Oh for sure. I get you. How hard can an R be driven before the clutch starts giving issues?

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In my opinion you would have to drive it bloody hard and often to give massive clutch issues. I have only heard of it once on a low mileage car but it was one of the press vehicles first brought in to SA when the MkVII was introduced.

That's the thing. All the discussions I'm finding that are even remotely similar to mine are pre-2012!

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[Tman21]

.From my research I get the gist that the DSG box is prone to faults. And expensive to fix.

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Audi S4 DL501 (wet) = 34K repair quote on 26/06/2018 (Today )

New clutch pack and mechatronic rebuild.

[Life]

My '15 R has a few of the minor creeks that you mention but I can't recall a judder when creeping in traffic before accelerating. I will keep an eye out for it though and report back, I have found the DSG gearbox to be jittery/stuttery at times in D which I have been told is normal.

The dealership ensured me the car was never raced, dragged or driven hard.

I call BS.

I had a Golf 7R that I never raced, dragged or drove hard.

[Luctor]

.From my research I get the gist that the DSG box is prone to faults. And expensive to fix.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Audi S4 DL501 (wet) = 34K repair quote on 26/06/2018 (Today )

New clutch pack and mechatronic rebuild.

Ouch. Sorry man. What were the symtpoms?



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[Neuk]

My '15 R has a few of the minor creeks that you mention but I can't recall a judder when creeping in traffic before accelerating. I will keep an eye out for it though and report back, I have found the DSG gearbox to be jittery/stuttery at times in D which I have been told is normal.

The dealership ensured me the car was never raced, dragged or driven hard.

I call BS.

I had a Golf 7R that I never raced, dragged or drove hard.

If that is true, and I highly doubt it, why did you buy it?

[panic-mechanic]

The Golf DSG box and the Audi S-tronic are very different gearboxes. The golf one is borg warner and the Audi is a ZF with very different actual design.
The one in the golf is also a dry clutch unit currently while the S-tronic is wet clutch.
But either way - that very thing you are talking about - Brake creeping is the biggest killer of Both of those types of boxes and even clutches of actual manual boxes. It is a bad habit too that you should try to avoid if all possible. Ie let the traffic move away a little and then moving off semi smartly so that the clutch can properly close instead of being in partial engaged mode, creeping along.
There is procedure to reset the the clutch touch points and calibration which might assist with it. Ask your dealership to do it for you.
The clutches in the golf are a LOT cheaper and also more common to find hence cheaper.

[Life]

My '15 R has a few of the minor creeks that you mention but I can't recall a judder when creeping in traffic before accelerating. I will keep an eye out for it though and report back, I have found the DSG gearbox to be jittery/stuttery at times in D which I have been told is normal.

The dealership ensured me the car was never raced, dragged or driven hard.

I call BS.

I had a Golf 7R that I never raced, dragged or drove hard.

If that is true, and I highly doubt it, why did you buy it?

LoL. Not all of us buy R's to drive the crap out of them. I did buy it purely for the love of everything Golf.
I was simply stating a fact that not every car at a dealership was raced, dragged or driven hard.
I just traded in my 2017 Polo GTi 2 weeks ago, like my Golf R it was a garage queen, So in the 1 year 5 months that I had it, did I race it for the 1,200km that I got to drive it?

[Neuk]

If that is true, and I highly doubt it, why did you buy it?

LoL. Not all of us buy R's to drive the crap out of them. I did buy it purely for the love of everything Golf.
I was simply stating a fact that not every car at a dealership was raced, dragged or driven hard.
I just traded in my 2017 Polo GTi 2 weeks ago, like my Golf R it was a garage queen, So in the 1 year 5 months that I had it, did I race it for the 1,200km that I got to drive it?

It is a real shame when people buy cars to simply be garage queens Cars like GTi's and R's are meant to be driven, not at 11/10th's all the time, not raced or dragged all the time, but at least in a spirited fashion from time to time. Even myself, a notoriously slow granny driver, put my R in Race mode every now and then to get a big fat grin on my face. Try it some day, you might surprise yourself...

[jtm]

The Golf DSG box and the Audi S-tronic are very different gearboxes. The golf one is borg warner and the Audi is a ZF with very different actual design.
The one in the golf is also a dry clutch unit currently while the S-tronic is wet clutch.
But either way - that very thing you are talking about - Brake creeping is the biggest killer of Both of those types of boxes and even clutches of actual manual boxes. It is a bad habit too that you should try to avoid if all possible. Ie let the traffic move away a little and then moving off semi smartly so that the clutch can properly close instead of being in partial engaged mode, creeping along.
There is procedure to reset the the clutch touch points and calibration which might assist with it. Ask your dealership to do it for you.
The clutches in the golf are a LOT cheaper and also more common to find hence cheaper.

Aren't the golf GTI and R DSG's wet clutches too?

[Tman21]

Aren't the golf GTI and R DSG's wet clutches too?

Not sure who belongs where but :

DSG
DQ250 6 speed (wet)
DQ200 7 speed (dry)
DQ500 7 speed (wet)

S-tronic
DL501 7 speed (wet)
DQ200 7 speed (dry)

This is copy and paste from Gbox fundi web page not sure which belongs where other than the DL501 thats in my S4.

[Luctor]

I think the 6 speed DSGs are dry as far as I can tell.

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[Luctor]

The Golf DSG box and the Audi S-tronic are very different gearboxes. The golf one is borg warner and the Audi is a ZF with very different actual design.
The one in the golf is also a dry clutch unit currently while the S-tronic is wet clutch.
But either way - that very thing you are talking about - Brake creeping is the biggest killer of Both of those types of boxes and even clutches of actual manual boxes. It is a bad habit too that you should try to avoid if all possible. Ie let the traffic move away a little and then moving off semi smartly so that the clutch can properly close instead of being in partial engaged mode, creeping along.
There is procedure to reset the the clutch touch points and calibration which might assist with it. Ask your dealership to do it for you.
The clutches in the golf are a LOT cheaper and also more common to find hence cheaper.

Solid advice. I'm coming from a ZF 8 speed on a bm which was very smooth. Brake creeping was easy as the car pulled straight away on brake release. Whereas on the golf there's a hesitation, then pull off. Like it's engaging a gear, while the bm always felt already in gear. It's not a very smooth pull off but having driven it for a week now I think I'm just being paranoid about the shuddering. Maybe ZFs and DSGs work differently?

Either way, I'm trying to brake creep less. Difficult in uphill traffic that I sit in daily.

Thanks for the replies gents. I'll ask the dealership to check it out when it goes for a service next month. I purchased an extended warranty so hopefully if something is wrong it'll be covered. I'll ask for a software update first and see how that goes.

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[Neuk]

The Golf DSG box and the Audi S-tronic are very different gearboxes. The golf one is borg warner and the Audi is a ZF with very different actual design.
The one in the golf is also a dry clutch unit currently while the S-tronic is wet clutch.
But either way - that very thing you are talking about - Brake creeping is the biggest killer of Both of those types of boxes and even clutches of actual manual boxes. It is a bad habit too that you should try to avoid if all possible. Ie let the traffic move away a little and then moving off semi smartly so that the clutch can properly close instead of being in partial engaged mode, creeping along.
There is procedure to reset the the clutch touch points and calibration which might assist with it. Ask your dealership to do it for you.
The clutches in the golf are a LOT cheaper and also more common to find hence cheaper.

Solid advice. I'm coming from a ZF 8 speed on a bm which was very smooth. Brake creeping was easy as the car pulled straight away on brake release. Whereas on the golf there's a hesitation, then pull off. Like it's engaging a gear, while the bm always felt already in gear. It's not a very smooth pull off but having driven it for a week now I think I'm just being paranoid about the shuddering. Maybe ZFs and DSGs work differently?

Either way, I'm trying to brake creep less. Difficult in uphill traffic that I sit in daily.

Thanks for the replies gents. I'll ask the dealership to check it out when it goes for a service next month. I purchased an extended warranty so hopefully if something is wrong it'll be covered. I'll ask for a software update first and see how that goes.

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If the ZF 8 speed was a normal torque converter type of automatic gearbox, it is vastly different to a dual clutch DSG type automatic gearbox.

[Neuk]

Aren't the golf GTI and R DSG's wet clutches too?

Not sure who belongs where but :

DSG
DQ250 6 speed (wet)
DQ200 7 speed (dry)
DQ500 7 speed (wet)

S-tronic
DL501 7 speed (wet)
DQ200 7 speed (dry)

This is copy and paste from Gbox fundi web page not sure which belongs where other than the DL501 thats in my S4.

It surely can't be as simple as DSG vs S-Tronic? An A3 S-Tronic gearbox is different to an A4 S-Tronic gearbox due to the different engine and drivetrain layouts and different 4wd systems used.