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More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:57 am
by NOXQSES
Hi guys,

I need some advise regarding my turbo setup on my mk2 jetta cli.

I currently have 2e block, 1.9tdi crank, std rods, caravelle pistons and virgin 16v head, running 1.0bar on pump fuel making 211kw 392nm atw.

Ive got an abf intake with log exhaust manifold t3/t4 turbonetics with .63 exh, 550cc rx7 injectors and std dictator to run it all on.

The gearbox is cableshift with vr6 internals and the vr6 clutch.

This is my daily so dont want to make her unreliable but where do i go from here to obtain more power safely still running pump fuel.

Your advice will be highly appreciated.

Thanks

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:57 pm
by Unobeat
Impressive figures you have there.
How much more power you want to make?

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Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:32 pm
by NOXQSES
I was hoping for about 250kw atw but dont think i can do that on 95 octane. I was thinking more power = better time but at the moment im doing 15.3 on the 1/4 mile and huge wheelspin. So if you can give me some advise as to what components and where to buy them id really appreciate

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:06 pm
by PapaJo
More power = more wheelspin.

What is done suspension and brake wise? Rather upgrade there first. Tyre make and compound is also playing a role here. This would help you to get times lowered. Getting power from the wheels on to the tarmac with lesser wheel spin will give you better times.

Tubular equal length manifold will give you more top end as opposed to a log manifold with a bit of loss on the low end turbo spool up. This is a debate on its own and a lot of different opinions on this. Google turbo manifold design and you will get a better idea.

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:42 am
by NOXQSES
Ive got a vr6 brake upgrade so breaking is nit a problem.

Where would i be able to get coilovers / traction bars still street friendly. Keeping jn mind this is my daily

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:31 pm
by jaredm01
Turbo is too big, get something smaller which will spoil up better. I went from 190wkw to 240wkw on a similar setup just by downsizing from a .63 to a .48. Manifold also makes a big difference. That was on pump also.


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Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:36 pm
by amstel18
NOXQSES wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 6:42 am
Ive got a vr6 brake upgrade so breaking is nit a problem.

Where would i be able to get coilovers / traction bars still street friendly. Keeping jn mind this is my daily
So Stock suspension? Tyre make? size?

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:57 pm
by ICE King
Assuming you are after 1/4 mile's times rather than a dyno queen?

211kw atw in that body should be good for high 13 seconds if your suspension is setup correctly - Set of wide slicks up front 205's and plus , Poly engine mounts , Decent Coilovers or sport spring & shock combo,

Also a linear power graph is best , Sounds like as soon as you hit boost -all you see is tyre smoke

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:45 pm
by Killerwatt
Do you have more details on the turbo? What wheels are in there?
Definitly think you can run faster without adding more power. Decent coilovers will help so will boost per gear or at least a high/low boost switch. Don't think traction bars are needes just yet.

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:28 pm
by PapaJo
Killerwatt wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:45 pm
Do you have more details on the turbo? What wheels are in there?
Definitly think you can run faster without adding more power. Decent coilovers will help so will boost per gear or at least a high/low boost switch. Don't think traction bars are needes just yet.
He can setup the Dicktator GPO output for this to activate on RPM set value or a micro switch on the throttle cam to switch to hgh boost on cetain opening on throttle cam. GPO is a better option I think.

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:24 am
by NOXQSES
amstel18 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:36 pm
NOXQSES wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 6:42 am
Ive got a vr6 brake upgrade so breaking is nit a problem.

Where would i be able to get coilovers / traction bars still street friendly. Keeping jn mind this is my daily
So Stock suspension? Tyre make? size?
Yokohama a drive r1 205/40/17 this was completely street to strip I ran what i had with no alterations.

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:25 am
by NOXQSES
jaredm01 wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:31 pm
Turbo is too big, get something smaller which will spoil up better. I went from 190wkw to 240wkw on a similar setup just by downsizing from a .63 to a .48. Manifold also makes a big difference. That was on pump also.


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What boost were you running there

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:28 am
by NOXQSES
ICE King wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:57 pm
Assuming you are after 1/4 mile's times rather than a dyno queen?

211kw atw in that body should be good for high 13 seconds if your suspension is setup correctly - Set of wide slicks up front 205's and plus , Poly engine mounts , Decent Coilovers or sport spring & shock combo,

Also a linear power graph is best , Sounds like as soon as you hit boost -all you see is tyre smoke
On Tarlton that is exactly what happens but on the road its a completely different story, where can i find coilovers for the jetta mk2?

Thanks for all the help guys this really helps.

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:30 am
by NOXQSES
PapaJo wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 7:28 pm
Killerwatt wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:45 pm
Do you have more details on the turbo? What wheels are in there?
Definitly think you can run faster without adding more power. Decent coilovers will help so will boost per gear or at least a high/low boost switch. Don't think traction bars are needes just yet.
He can setup the Dicktator GPO output for this to activate on RPM set value or a micro switch on the throttle cam to switch to hgh boost on cetain opening on throttle cam. GPO is a better option I think.
Ok so how do you go about this? to give you an idea, first and second gear is a problem only after third something starts to happen

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:10 pm
by PapaJo
If you use Dicktator setting, you set the ooen and close RPM. If you use a switch on throttle cam, you need to fabricate a striker on throttle cam and bracket for switch. You need then to work out at which throttle position you wabt it to switch from low to highboost and adjust switch position to close.

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:13 pm
by PapaJo
If you use Dicktator setting, you set the open and close RPM. The GPO output activates a relay or switch direct to the high low boost controller. Relay is a safer option

If you use a switch on throttle cam, you need to fabricate a striker on throttle cam and bracket for switch. You need then to work out at which throttle position you wabt it to switch from low to highboost and adjust switch position to close.

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:28 pm
by MarshallGTi
I would just say try a smaller turbo and a decent tune so that you make nice linear power and not one big spike somewhere high up the rev range. Your tyres are decent so throw in some quality coilovers that have damping adjustment, anywhere around the 200kw region is more than enough in a mk2, you just need to be able to put it all down.

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:41 pm
by NOXQSES
MarshallGTi wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:28 pm
I would just say try a smaller turbo and a decent tune so that you make nice linear power and not one big spike somewhere high up the rev range. Your tyres are decent so throw in some quality coilovers that have damping adjustment, anywhere around the 200kw region is more than enough in a mk2, you just need to be able to put it all down.
There is no way I am going smaller on the turbo her body weighs in at just under a ton with the new motor, mags etc.just bear in mind this was on Tarlton and there is little to no grip 15.3 with wheelspin up to 3rd gear vs the street where I get traction in 2nd.

I've had a battle today with the ford focus ST and whipped his ass from 2nd gear all the way to 5th going up the hill at silverstar casino as I'm only battling in 1st in the streets.

Shes running reliably and pulls like a beast, since I cant do anything else performance wise while running pump gas I am going to focus on traction and putting in a decent electronic boost controller. I'm waiting for the next meet as I've already bought TOYO R888R semi slicks 225/70/15 with a set of steelies of course. This will have to do up until I can get myself the coilover set etc.

I'd rather put some cash away to get her a proper set of koni or eibach coilovers and know that i have one of the best than take out 3k - 5k on a cheap set and be disappointed.

Thanks for all the help, hints and tips its much appreciated allImage

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:51 pm
by ICE King
NOXQSES wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 4:41 pm
MarshallGTi wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:28 pm
I would just say try a smaller turbo and a decent tune so that you make nice linear power and not one big spike somewhere high up the rev range. Your tyres are decent so throw in some quality coilovers that have damping adjustment, anywhere around the 200kw region is more than enough in a mk2, you just need to be able to put it all down.
There is no way I am going smaller on the turbo her body weighs in at just under a ton with the new motor, mags etc.just bear in mind this was on Tarlton and there is little to no grip 15.3 with wheelspin up to 3rd gear vs the street where I get traction in 2nd.

I've had a battle today with the ford focus ST and whipped his ass from 2nd gear all the way to 5th going up the hill at silverstar casino as I'm only battling in 1st in the streets.

Shes running reliably and pulls like a beast, since I cant do anything else performance wise while running pump gas I am going to focus on traction and putting in a decent electronic boost controller. I'm waiting for the next meet as I've already bought TOYO R888R semi slicks 225/70/15 with a set of steelies of course. This will have to do up until I can get myself the coilover set etc.

I'd rather put some cash away to get her a proper set of koni or eibach coilovers and know that i have one of the best than take out 3k - 5k on a cheap set and be disappointed.

Thanks for all the help, hints and tips its much appreciated all
Agreed rather save for decent set of coilovers - KW coilovers and up. Your Yokohama A drives is not high performance tyre - I had a set on the polo and made smoke through to third , currently with the conti's I spin till second and get moving so the Toyo slicks is definitely a step in the right direction.

Keep in mind that wheel spin is a good and a bad thing - good - less strain on the drive-train - bad - you spinning and not going anywhere

generally the track has a smother surface hence why more spin vs the street

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:57 pm
by ICE King
Ask your tuner if he can get rid of that torque spike - smooth it out to bring it in slowly.

That. Or

go slicks, solid engine mounts,solid LCA bushes and have a nose dive setup however RIP gearbox, clutch and drive shafts

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:44 pm
by PapaJo
ICE King wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 4:57 pm
Ask your tuner if he can get rid of that torque spike - smooth it out to bring it in slowly.

That. Or

go slicks, solid engine mounts,solid LCA bushes and have a nose dive setup however RIP gearbox, clutch and drive shafts
"RIP gearbox" this is where it is going to start getting expensive if you are not carefully.

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:04 pm
by ob wan
ola, will you be able to post a pic of your exhaust manifold? pretty please

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:37 pm
by NOXQSES
Howsit buddy, i have a log manifold atm but changing to equal length this weekend, we just need to cut and weld the pipe for external wastegate, will post a pic of both once ive taken it off. Car is a daily so can only work on it on weekends.

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:36 pm
by ob wan
will you be building it yourself?

Re: More power safely 16v Turbo

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:48 pm
by PapaJo
NOXQSES wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:37 pm
Howsit buddy, i have a log manifold atm but changing to equal length this weekend, we just need to cut and weld the pipe for external wastegate, will post a pic of both once ive taken it off. Car is a daily so can only work on it on weekends.
Equal length may help you losing some wheelspin lower in the RPM range and shift it upwards. May also make it feel that car is slower off the mark. Log style usually need different timing settings than equal length, so double check your tune after you have changed the header.