My 16v build, continued

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ob wan
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My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:08 pm

thought I would move it here as this will be the correct forum.... wink-wink

got my arp rod bolts and head studs today
bought a t3t4 with cast manifold from a friend, dunno the specs but took it in
for a recon...

motor: 9A, abf intake, 240cc injectors, vr6 tb, adjustable rising rate fpr, stock internals

now I need input on pistons as I hear the stock rods are strong enough with the added arp's
I would like to boost 0.8bar and hope to use the same recipe as topsport did in the old days

will kombi pistons be sufficient? hopefully power will be close to 250kw on the fly as possible...

I checked the prices on forged pistons today.... :twisted:

ps, this will be my first ever turbo build
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by THANAS » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:48 pm

You're going to need bigger injectors I would say. Will be watching this build, goodluck.
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:05 am

got new t3/t4 with 38mm external wastegate and exh flange today...

now looking for a intercooler, what sizes are the mk1 turbo guys running?
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by Donavan » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:03 am

ob wan wrote:thought I would move it here as this will be the correct forum.... wink-wink

got my arp rod bolts and head studs today
bought a t3t4 with cast manifold from a friend, dunno the specs but took it in
for a recon...

motor: 9A, abf intake, 240cc injectors, vr6 tb, adjustable rising rate fpr, stock internals

now I need input on pistons as I hear the stock rods are strong enough with the added arp's
I would like to boost 0.8bar and hope to use the same recipe as topsport did in the old days

will kombi pistons be sufficient? hopefully power will be close to 250kw on the fly as possible...

I checked the prices on forged pistons today.... :twisted:

ps, this will be my first ever turbo build
You will need at least 550cc injectors if you want to get anywhere near that target and I doubt you will get near 250kw with a standard t3/t4 on only 0.8bar.

It will have to be more in the region of 1.5 to 1.8 bar.

I have basicly the same setup.

9a Sub assembly with Scat Rods and 83mm Wiseco Pistons.
KR Head with ABF Cams and ARP Head studs.
T3/T4 Turbo Stage 3 exhaust and a Trim 57 compressor.
550cc injectors

Only managed 240kw and that's running on Avgas
Audi A3 1.8t 20V
EX: Mk 1 2 Door - 2L 16V Turbo
http://www.vwclub.co.za/phpbb3/viewtopi ... 11&t=33370
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:47 pm

figured I was a bit optimistic with those figures....

got intercooler and caravelle AE-nural pistons today and sent them for pocketing at our engineering shop, think i'll settle for boost<1bar, maybe 0.6-0.8....
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by panic-mechanic » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:13 pm

You can do 250 wkw on stock internals. It's in the turbo spec and headwork etc. not what is in the bottom end so much on it's own.
I used stock 2E Bottom end. Even stock bolts.
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:43 am

I'm starting to lean towards a 2E...
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:29 pm

kombi pistons are now pocketed, will install at the end of the month with arp rod bolts

if the fueling and timing is sorted and there is no detonation this setup should work, shouldn't it?
getting a lot of mixed comments from guys in the know regarding short block and kombi pistons....
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by panic-mechanic » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:31 pm

Yes it will work. Has been done numerous times in the past with pretty decent results.
Tuning is everything.....
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:23 pm

Phew! thank you Panic
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:00 am

parts acquired thus far:

T3/T4 Turbo
cast manifold
external wastegate 38mm
intercooler
low comp pistons
rod bolts ARP
head studs ARP
oil fittings and lines
boost gauge
Blow-off valve with t-piece
boostpipes (50mm x 10 bends)
steel headgasket
down pipe
50mm sillicone pipes
63mm s/s bends
50mm s/s bends
38mm s/s bends
2m 63mm s/s pipe
2m 50mm s/s pipe

now just waiting on the gas for my co2 welder...
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by Donavan » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:04 am

Maybe open a new thread in the Rides Section and add some pics
Audi A3 1.8t 20V
EX: Mk 1 2 Door - 2L 16V Turbo
http://www.vwclub.co.za/phpbb3/viewtopi ... 11&t=33370
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by Unobeat » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:03 am

Donavan wrote:Maybe open a new thread in the Rides Section and add some pics
+1

Yes please or he can ask the committee to convert this into a ride thread?
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:24 pm

[Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:29 pm

Image
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:35 pm

Image

Image

Image
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:39 pm

as you can see I have a serious space issue, will have to get a different type of manifold... :cry:
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by PapaJo » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:41 pm

ob wan wrote:as you can see I have a serious space issue, will have to get a different type of manifold... :cry:
You can get one build by Branchworks or get one from MrTurbo if they have stock. Contact MRD in Pta. Closer to you.

Something like this would work with BOV positioned on the front or side to clear at the back.
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Subscribed and keeping an eye on this build.
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:31 am

I will be needing a manifold like above, but to have the turbo sit at the bottom, looks like
will be building my own manifold...
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by PapaJo » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:01 am

ob wan wrote:I will be needing a manifold like above, but to have the turbo sit at the bottom, looks like
will be building my own manifold...
When building one hanging, be sure to check for clearance from drive shaft and steering knuckle and rubber. Hanging down have less space between firewall and motor and turbo need to be very close to the motor to allow space for motor rocking and turbo not hitting the firewall or steering knuckle. Check turbo outlet to exhaust routing too to ensure you have space for the downpipe.
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:17 am

PapaJo wrote:
ob wan wrote:I will be needing a manifold like above, but to have the turbo sit at the bottom, looks like
will be building my own manifold...
When building one hanging, be sure to check for clearance from drive shaft and steering knuckle and rubber. Hanging down have less space between firewall and motor and turbo need to be very close to the motor to allow space for motor rocking and turbo not hitting the firewall or steering knuckle. Check turbo outlet to exhaust routing too to ensure you have space for the downpipe.
thank you, very helpful info, will check if it will go in otherwise i'll swop it around and have the turbo inlet face the brake booster
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by PapaJo » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:42 pm

ob wan wrote:
PapaJo wrote:
ob wan wrote:I will be needing a manifold like above, but to have the turbo sit at the bottom, looks like
will be building my own manifold...
When building one hanging, be sure to check for clearance from drive shaft and steering knuckle and rubber. Hanging down have less space between firewall and motor and turbo need to be very close to the motor to allow space for motor rocking and turbo not hitting the firewall or steering knuckle. Check turbo outlet to exhaust routing too to ensure you have space for the downpipe.
thank you, very helpful info, will check if it will go in otherwise i'll swop it around and have the turbo inlet face the brake booster
Yes it will give you a bit of extra space for the downpipe if you turn the turbo around with sompressor inlet facing the brake booster. You will then need to check the compressor outlet routing as that will be close to the engine block and tight space turning up and around gearbox casing. Find the best suitable solution that will allow best routes for routing downpipe, compressor inlet and outlet piping and then you make a jig support for holding the turbo flange in position in relation to the flange on the head and then work from there. If you have a spare head, you can bolt the head flange on it to give you a good flat flange surface. Alternatively get a thick and flat base plate (a std exhaust manifold will do this job too, just ensure it is flat and not bent) to bolt the flange to it and start building your own branch from there. Remember to treat for heat stress to prevent cracking of welds after a few heat cycles and also have both flanges surfaced to ensure a flat surface when bolted down. All these will save you a lot of headaches further down the line.

You can also opt for what they call a log type manifold that will give you more clearance as the runners is shorter and also of unequal length primary runners. Disadvantage is higher heat trap in collector and more back pressure into the cylinders where you need to compensate then with fueling and ignition. Log type are also more prone to cracks on the welds from personal experiences due to the higher heat that does not dissapate as quick as in an equal length manifold. Log type manifold have a slight advantage of spooling the turbo a bit quicker, but you lose out on top end power as opposed to an equal length manifold. Make no mistake both work, but you have to determine what is your ultimate goal and where is your limitations.

Sorry for the long write up. Tried to summarize it.
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:02 pm

awesome, thanks, getting goosebumps already.... can't wait to start this manifold, hopefully this weekend, will post pics
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by PapaJo » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:33 pm

ob wan wrote:
Image
This is basically a log style manifold and if you go this route, you can change the position of the turbo flange to give you more clearance and then you put a divider inside the open port to direct exhaust gas flow towards the turbo inlet. The divider on the other hand also chokes the runners feeding into the turbo. No divider will cause the exhaust gasses from cylinders 1 and 2 to blow back to cylinders 3 and 4 and vice versa when going up in boost causing the back pressure and heat collection as mentioned before in previous post. Easiest manifold to build if you want to go this route with a few sacrifices on the power side.

Equal length manifold is better.
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Re: My 16v build, continued

Post by ob wan » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:31 pm

ok so I got my manifold flange and a T3 flange with 16 steam bends...
still need to build a collector then I can start fabricating Saturday...
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