Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

golf4ever
Cadet
Posts: 567
Registered for: 21 years 4 months
Car Make: AUDI
Car Model: TT
Membership No: missing
Location: Centurion

Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by golf4ever »

Hi guys,

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two oils.

I have been using the Ultra on my Golf 4 Gti (110kw) for years and have always been happy.

My brother is using the HX7 on his Golf 6 GTi (147 kw) - Stage 2 chipped now

I am now considering what to use on my 2007 Audi TT 2.0 T - Any recomendations???
2012 Land Rover Discovery 4 3.0T - White rolling on 19's
2007 Audi TT 2.0T - Grey rolling on S5 19's
2001 Golf IV GTi 1.8T - Black rolling on Oz Palladio 18's
1984 Golf 1 GTi 1.8 - Silver - My new baby
User avatar
georgie
Captain
Posts: 2762
Registered for: 17 years 11 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: 07 pgti
Membership No: missing
Location: Cape Town

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by georgie »

Helix Ultra is 5w40 (full synthetic)

HX7 is 10w40 (semi-synthetic)

HX7 is quite a bit cheaper, but I think you should go with the 5w40 but check your manual to confirm.
07 PGTi
Ex: 11 BMW 320d
Ex: 12 Cross Polo 1.6
Ex: 15 Fiesta ST
Ex: 04 Jetta 1.8T
Ex: 99 Golf VR6
Ex: 87 Fox 1600
Ex: 99 Polo 2.0 16v (ITB's, cams, etc)
Ex: 05 Fiesta ST, 00 Sentra 200gsi, 04 citi 1.4i, 94 Corolla 180i GSE ,92 cti, 73 Escort Mk1 4AGE twincam
User avatar
4ePikanini
Lieutenant
Posts: 1476
Registered for: 14 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Touareg R5
Membership No: missing
Location: East London, Thorn Park
Contact:

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by 4ePikanini »

Stick with Ultra Fully synthetic.
My Touareg Build
2005 Touareg R5 Air & Bi-Xenon
Image
golf4ever
Cadet
Posts: 567
Registered for: 21 years 4 months
Car Make: AUDI
Car Model: TT
Membership No: missing
Location: Centurion

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by golf4ever »

I asked my brother why he is using HX7 and he said fully syntethic is to thin which causes the engine to be roudy
Is this true for chipped cars? Seemed weird to me...
2012 Land Rover Discovery 4 3.0T - White rolling on 19's
2007 Audi TT 2.0T - Grey rolling on S5 19's
2001 Golf IV GTi 1.8T - Black rolling on Oz Palladio 18's
1984 Golf 1 GTi 1.8 - Silver - My new baby
User avatar
Stompie
Boostleak Guru
Posts: 20203
Registered for: 12 years 9 months
Car Make: BMW
Car Model: 2006 120D
Membership No: 1843
Location: East Rand

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by Stompie »

since ive been on motul fully synthetic i must say my car is much louder when cold in the mornings. When warm then the engine is quiet
Image
BMW 120D E87
Ex: 07' Polo GTI 1.8T Rides Thread Here
User avatar
Neuk
Treasurer
Treasurer
Posts: 49805
Registered for: 18 years 3 months
Car Make: Volkswagen
Car Model: Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Membership No: 806
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by Neuk »

It is a pity you can't choose your family...

What is the minimum specification for the MkV/VI GTi engine? I can't believe that HX7 will meet it and would only use a full synthetic as I do in my 1.8T...
Current Garage:
Daily Drive: 2014 VW Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Project Fes: 1982 VW Golf GLS 1.5
Project FeO: 1966 VW Type 2 Transporter Kombi Split Window

Previous Garage:
Roxy: 2015 VW Golf R
Vagon: 2005 Audi B6 A4 1.8T (140kw) Avant
Project XXXX: 1967 VW Type 3 Variant (Squareback)
Project Betty: 2005 Polo 1.9 TDI (PD130) Sportline
Weekend Warrior: 1993 Volkswagen Caddy 2.0 16v ABF on ITB's
User avatar
4ePikanini
Lieutenant
Posts: 1476
Registered for: 14 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Touareg R5
Membership No: missing
Location: East London, Thorn Park
Contact:

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by 4ePikanini »

I believe current spec for vw/audi is as faollows

All petrol needs 504.00 spec (weight is dependent on climate)

All diesels use 507.00 spec except for pre-DPF R5/V10 engines that require 505.01(fixed interval)/506.01(extended interval) :: (weight is dependent on climate)
My Touareg Build
2005 Touareg R5 Air & Bi-Xenon
Image
Fastandfurious
Major
Posts: 3523
Registered for: 21 years 7 months
Car Make: Ford
Car Model: Ranger
Membership No: 458
Location: Durbanville, Cape Town

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by Fastandfurious »

I use HX7 Diesel 5W30 in mine, that's what VW sold me.
HASSEN
Cadet
Posts: 962
Registered for: 21 years 7 months
Location: Vereeniging

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by HASSEN »

Fully synthetic for all. No comparison to semi synthetic oil.
User avatar
Neuk
Treasurer
Treasurer
Posts: 49805
Registered for: 18 years 3 months
Car Make: Volkswagen
Car Model: Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Membership No: 806
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by Neuk »

Fastandfurious wrote:I use HX7 Diesel 5W30 in mine, that's what VW sold me.
That is 505 spec if I remember correctly? Also recommended for use in VR motors...
Current Garage:
Daily Drive: 2014 VW Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Project Fes: 1982 VW Golf GLS 1.5
Project FeO: 1966 VW Type 2 Transporter Kombi Split Window

Previous Garage:
Roxy: 2015 VW Golf R
Vagon: 2005 Audi B6 A4 1.8T (140kw) Avant
Project XXXX: 1967 VW Type 3 Variant (Squareback)
Project Betty: 2005 Polo 1.9 TDI (PD130) Sportline
Weekend Warrior: 1993 Volkswagen Caddy 2.0 16v ABF on ITB's
User avatar
4ePikanini
Lieutenant
Posts: 1476
Registered for: 14 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Touareg R5
Membership No: missing
Location: East London, Thorn Park
Contact:

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by 4ePikanini »

HX7 AV is 505.01 spec. I use that in my R5 Touareg.
My Touareg Build
2005 Touareg R5 Air & Bi-Xenon
Image
Miela
Cadet
Posts: 915
Registered for: 12 years 10 months

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by Miela »

4ePikanini wrote:I believe current spec for vw/audi is as faollows

All petrol needs 504.00 spec (weight is dependent on climate)

All diesels use 507.00 spec except for pre-DPF R5/V10 engines that require 505.01(fixed interval)/506.01(extended interval) :: (weight is dependent on climate)
VAG Petrol cars require 502 spec, not 504. 504 oils were developed for variable service intervals where ultra low sulphur fuels were availible, ie Europe. If you notice the TBN of 504/507 oil, that is the total base number of additive in the oils to protect against acid formation, you will see that 504/507 oils have a TBN nearly of HALF that of 502/505 oils. Low SAPS oils as they are reffered to cannot run the distance when using high sulpher fuels as their TBN would drop dramatically and their TAN level will raise to a point where they might sludge.

So to recap, all VAG petrol should use 502 in SA and all diesels should use 505 except for pre-DPF R5/V10 diesels.
golf4ever wrote:Hi guys,

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two oils.

I have been using the Ultra on my Golf 4 Gti (110kw) for years and have always been happy.

My brother is using the HX7 on his Golf 6 GTi (147 kw) - Stage 2 chipped now

I am now considering what to use on my 2007 Audi TT 2.0 T - Any recomendations???
Shell HX7 is a Group 3+ base now, that is, a hydrocracked slack wax base mineral oil which is also refered to as synthetic technology oil. It is NOT a semi-synthetic which denotes a mix of group 2/3 and 3+ base oils.

Shell Ultra on the other hand is a PAO Group 4 base refered to as fully synthetic. In this case, Ultra is the superior oil in every aspect.

Although, a group3+ is NOT always superior to a group 4 oil. Still big debate raging on about this but the base oil is not the only determinent of an oils performance (an oils additive pack is the other half of what is needed to make an oil perform).
golf4ever wrote:I asked my brother why he is using HX7 and he said fully syntethic is to thin which causes the engine to be roudy
Is this true for chipped cars? Seemed weird to me...
This is a common misconception. As both oils have a "hot" viscocity rating of 40, they will be virtually the same thicknes @ 100C. At 100C Ultra is marginally thinner at 1cst which is negligable. Although, Ultra has a higher HTHS (High Tempreture High Sheer) viscocity @ 150C than HX7 which means when running hard and very hot, HX7 will thin out a heck of allot more than Ultra in high temperature and high shear conditions. So under extreme conditions, Ultra will protect your engine way better to due its much higher HTHS VI.

Plus, HX7 is much thicker when cold which also adds to premature wear (10w vs Ultra's superior 5w).

HX7 is a 502 rated oil so it meets the minimum requirements of VAG but Ultra is way superior in every way. Also, Ultra contains LOTS more Boron which is a awesome anti-wear additive.
Current - Audi TT RS
Current - VW Chico 1.4 - Track Toy

Ex - 2013 Toyota GT86 High Spec
EX - Honda Civic Type R Championship Edition
User avatar
mojo786
Lieutenant
Posts: 1171
Registered for: 15 years 3 months
Car Make: Vw+SEAT
Car Model: VeLo+Cupra
Membership No: missing
Location: durban

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by mojo786 »

Can someone list the 507spec oils,like which brand and ratings etc
Image Image
Velo-ABF-ride-thread
2.0 16v ABF - MP9/ Per4mance Custom Tuned-(0837860345)
57mm F/F
Custom ratio Bolted diff Gearbox
CrossDrilled VR6 stoppers!
JOM coilovers
A.R.B
Webasto tilt n slide sunroof
.:R -Line boot spoiler

07 SEAT IBiza CUPRA TDi
Allard EGR delete
BMC flatbed filter
dp/FullZorst
Sw

Mopower.abf@gmail.com
Miela
Cadet
Posts: 915
Registered for: 12 years 10 months

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by Miela »

mojo786 wrote:Can someone list the 507spec oils,like which brand and ratings etc
Why would you want to use a 507 spec oil over a 505 in SA as per my previous post ? The same applies to the diesel we use, this is, very high sulphur content of 50ppm at best. These low SAPS oils were developed to protect after treatment systems better, not necesarily your engine.

507 oils require <50ppm sulphur diesel to run normal OCI's and <10ppm for extended drain.

If you still dont want to take my advice, Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w30 is a VW504/507 spec oil (group3+ synthetic technology oil) which is pretty easily availible.
Current - Audi TT RS
Current - VW Chico 1.4 - Track Toy

Ex - 2013 Toyota GT86 High Spec
EX - Honda Civic Type R Championship Edition
HASSEN
Cadet
Posts: 962
Registered for: 21 years 7 months
Location: Vereeniging

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by HASSEN »

Hi Miela
Awesome info as always. Are you a tribologist by profession? Can u possibly pm me your number to chat about oil . Will only do so occasionally. Lol.
Miela
Cadet
Posts: 915
Registered for: 12 years 10 months

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by Miela »

HASSEN wrote:Hi Miela
Awesome info as always. Are you a tribologist by profession? Can u possibly pm me your number to chat about oil . Will only do so occasionally. Lol.
I am not a tribologist, just seriously obsessed with engine oil, but my dad is an analytical chemist who specialised in petrochemicals for years.

Drop me a pm any time you need info :cool:
Current - Audi TT RS
Current - VW Chico 1.4 - Track Toy

Ex - 2013 Toyota GT86 High Spec
EX - Honda Civic Type R Championship Edition
User avatar
mojo786
Lieutenant
Posts: 1171
Registered for: 15 years 3 months
Car Make: Vw+SEAT
Car Model: VeLo+Cupra
Membership No: missing
Location: durban

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by mojo786 »

Miela wrote:
mojo786 wrote:Can someone list the 507spec oils,like which brand and ratings etc
Why would you want to use a 507 spec oil over a 505 in SA as per my previous post ? The same applies to the diesel we use, this is, very high sulphur content of 50ppm at best. These low SAPS oils were developed to protect after treatment systems better, not necesarily your engine.

507 oils require <50ppm sulphur diesel to run normal OCI's and <10ppm for extended drain.

If you still dont want to take my advice, Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w30 is a VW504/507 spec oil (group3+ synthetic technology oil) which is pretty easily availible.
Coz specifications for my Seat Cupra TDi is 507spec and i only use 50ppm sulphur diesel :roll: :lol:
Image Image
Velo-ABF-ride-thread
2.0 16v ABF - MP9/ Per4mance Custom Tuned-(0837860345)
57mm F/F
Custom ratio Bolted diff Gearbox
CrossDrilled VR6 stoppers!
JOM coilovers
A.R.B
Webasto tilt n slide sunroof
.:R -Line boot spoiler

07 SEAT IBiza CUPRA TDi
Allard EGR delete
BMC flatbed filter
dp/FullZorst
Sw

Mopower.abf@gmail.com
User avatar
4ePikanini
Lieutenant
Posts: 1476
Registered for: 14 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Touareg R5
Membership No: missing
Location: East London, Thorn Park
Contact:

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by 4ePikanini »

505.00 and 505.01 differ vastly

Maybe Miela can explain to us in his infinite wisdom.
My Touareg Build
2005 Touareg R5 Air & Bi-Xenon
Image
HASSEN
Cadet
Posts: 962
Registered for: 21 years 7 months
Location: Vereeniging

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by HASSEN »

Miela wrote:
HASSEN wrote:Hi Miela
Awesome info as always. Are you a tribologist by profession? Can u possibly pm me your number to chat about oil . Will only do so occasionally. Lol.
I am not a tribologist, just seriously obsessed with engine oil, but my dad is an analytical chemist who specialised in petrochemicals for years.

Drop me a pm any time you need info :cool:

Thanks a million!
I know of weartec in isando who do UOA, are there any other labs able to do it in the Gauteng area that u could recommend as well?
User avatar
Neuk
Treasurer
Treasurer
Posts: 49805
Registered for: 18 years 3 months
Car Make: Volkswagen
Car Model: Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Membership No: 806
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by Neuk »

HASSEN wrote:
Miela wrote:
HASSEN wrote:Hi Miela
Awesome info as always. Are you a tribologist by profession? Can u possibly pm me your number to chat about oil . Will only do so occasionally. Lol.
I am not a tribologist, just seriously obsessed with engine oil, but my dad is an analytical chemist who specialised in petrochemicals for years.

Drop me a pm any time you need info :cool:

Thanks a million!
I know of weartec in isando who do UOA, are there any other labs able to do it in the Gauteng area that u could recommend as well?
Hassen, send Roadhawg a PM, he will know...
Current Garage:
Daily Drive: 2014 VW Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Project Fes: 1982 VW Golf GLS 1.5
Project FeO: 1966 VW Type 2 Transporter Kombi Split Window

Previous Garage:
Roxy: 2015 VW Golf R
Vagon: 2005 Audi B6 A4 1.8T (140kw) Avant
Project XXXX: 1967 VW Type 3 Variant (Squareback)
Project Betty: 2005 Polo 1.9 TDI (PD130) Sportline
Weekend Warrior: 1993 Volkswagen Caddy 2.0 16v ABF on ITB's
User avatar
ThatBloke
Cadet
Posts: 98
Registered for: 6 years 8 months

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by ThatBloke »

How does HX8 fully synthetic fit into the picture and compare to HX7?
At Midas currently 5W40 HX8 is only R60 more expensive than the 5W40 HX7
User avatar
Neuk
Treasurer
Treasurer
Posts: 49805
Registered for: 18 years 3 months
Car Make: Volkswagen
Car Model: Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Membership No: 806
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by Neuk »

HX8 is fully synthetic while HX7 is semi synthetic, a better comparison would be Ultra to HX8.
Current Garage:
Daily Drive: 2014 VW Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Project Fes: 1982 VW Golf GLS 1.5
Project FeO: 1966 VW Type 2 Transporter Kombi Split Window

Previous Garage:
Roxy: 2015 VW Golf R
Vagon: 2005 Audi B6 A4 1.8T (140kw) Avant
Project XXXX: 1967 VW Type 3 Variant (Squareback)
Project Betty: 2005 Polo 1.9 TDI (PD130) Sportline
Weekend Warrior: 1993 Volkswagen Caddy 2.0 16v ABF on ITB's
User avatar
ThatBloke
Cadet
Posts: 98
Registered for: 6 years 8 months

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by ThatBloke »

Neuk wrote:HX8 is fully synthetic while HX7 is semi synthetic, a better comparison would be Ultra to HX8.
That is probably true, doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between the same grade of Hx8 to Ultra, ultra does come in just about any conceivable viscosity variation whereas Hx8 seems to only have a limited range.

Seems the Hx8 is close to being a repackaged Ultra, full synthetic but only offered in the common viscosities everyday cars use and Ultra is for the more high end vehicles that require 0W40 etc, they can offer the Hx8 at a cheaper price without cannibalising the market for Ultra.
Jude
Enlisted
Posts: 22
Registered for: 6 years 8 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Jetta 6

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by Jude »

Hi guys,

Just a quick note here , if anyone is looking to buy Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 R395 (5ltr) on special at G.W. I just bought over the w.end in R.burg . Priced the same at a diferent store R780 .
User avatar
Neuk
Treasurer
Treasurer
Posts: 49805
Registered for: 18 years 3 months
Car Make: Volkswagen
Car Model: Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Membership No: 806
Location: Johannesburg

Re: Shell Helix Ultra versus Shell Helix HX7

Post by Neuk »

Jude wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:19 am Hi guys,

Just a quick note here , if anyone is looking to buy Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 R395 (5ltr) on special at G.W. I just bought over the w.end in R.burg . Priced the same at a diferent store R780 .
R780 :lol: WTF would pay that!
Current Garage:
Daily Drive: 2014 VW Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Project Fes: 1982 VW Golf GLS 1.5
Project FeO: 1966 VW Type 2 Transporter Kombi Split Window

Previous Garage:
Roxy: 2015 VW Golf R
Vagon: 2005 Audi B6 A4 1.8T (140kw) Avant
Project XXXX: 1967 VW Type 3 Variant (Squareback)
Project Betty: 2005 Polo 1.9 TDI (PD130) Sportline
Weekend Warrior: 1993 Volkswagen Caddy 2.0 16v ABF on ITB's
Post Reply