VR5 AQN : Is 5 Cyl standalone available?
- markfish888
- Cadet
- Posts: 595
- Registered for: 13 years
- Car Make: VW
- Car Model: B7A4 -JETTA Mk2
- Membership No: 1787
- Location: Faerie Glen PRETORIA
VR5 AQN : Is 5 Cyl standalone available?
Doing some research into a AQN VR5 20valve swap into Mk2.
I dont want a ABF : Done to Death, and R20 000.00 + FOR A 20YEAR OLD MOTOR: F&%@ off importers!'
1.8T : Done to death.
Pros:
1-2-4-5-3 firing order sounds just like Audi inline 5 pot!
Do not have to modify driver side chassis leg to clear pulleys/belts
Cons: Stock ME7.1 Bosch ECU
Significant correction for detonation on a pull away, amplified by a hot day.
Correction for detonation at high rpm - up to -9 degrees on several cylinders.
A shunt/jump in vehicle response at light throttle openings during a pull away. ( only applicable to DBW, considering VR6 OBD1 cable TB swap)
What appears to be a dip in performance at 4500 rpm ( manifold changeover).
Does any one know of some one running successfully on stand alone? Which Type/Model?
Needs to run the variable length intake manifold, and variable intake Cam. (20 valve only)
Most ECU stand alones only cater to 4/6/8/12 cylinder setups,
Due to the factors listed ( from the factory ECU) I want to see if a standalone is available.
I dont want to battle with factory ECU immobilizer issues etc.
I want to run it as simple as possible, swap DBW throttle to Early VR6 cable TB /Spitronics TB etc.
this guy cured the factory ECU, but it above my level of intelligence, and he in UK:
https://clubgti.com/forums/index.php?th ... ing.289451
I dont want a ABF : Done to Death, and R20 000.00 + FOR A 20YEAR OLD MOTOR: F&%@ off importers!'
1.8T : Done to death.
Pros:
1-2-4-5-3 firing order sounds just like Audi inline 5 pot!
Do not have to modify driver side chassis leg to clear pulleys/belts
Cons: Stock ME7.1 Bosch ECU
Significant correction for detonation on a pull away, amplified by a hot day.
Correction for detonation at high rpm - up to -9 degrees on several cylinders.
A shunt/jump in vehicle response at light throttle openings during a pull away. ( only applicable to DBW, considering VR6 OBD1 cable TB swap)
What appears to be a dip in performance at 4500 rpm ( manifold changeover).
Does any one know of some one running successfully on stand alone? Which Type/Model?
Needs to run the variable length intake manifold, and variable intake Cam. (20 valve only)
Most ECU stand alones only cater to 4/6/8/12 cylinder setups,
Due to the factors listed ( from the factory ECU) I want to see if a standalone is available.
I dont want to battle with factory ECU immobilizer issues etc.
I want to run it as simple as possible, swap DBW throttle to Early VR6 cable TB /Spitronics TB etc.
this guy cured the factory ECU, but it above my level of intelligence, and he in UK:
https://clubgti.com/forums/index.php?th ... ing.289451
MK2's dont die, they just get faster!!
- missioner
- Major
- Posts: 3991
- Registered for: 10 years 3 months
- Car Make: VW
- Car Model: '87 MK1 Golf Citi
Re: VR5 AQN : Is 5 Cyl standalone available?
Speak to Thanas performance for options on converting the stock ECU to a stand-alone unit.
Can't speak for them but if most of the CAN crap can be removed or coded out you could essentially make it a reasonable setup for the mk2.
Bear in mind the VR5 is not very powerful and has all the traps of the later VR6 motors related to gearbox options etc.
It should sound frikken hot and at least be able to run with a sorted ADY.
Looking forward to see results.
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Can't speak for them but if most of the CAN crap can be removed or coded out you could essentially make it a reasonable setup for the mk2.
Bear in mind the VR5 is not very powerful and has all the traps of the later VR6 motors related to gearbox options etc.
It should sound frikken hot and at least be able to run with a sorted ADY.
Looking forward to see results.
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'87 Golf 1 Olde Skewl OEM+
- Neuk
- Treasurer
- Posts: 49820
- Registered for: 18 years 4 months
- Car Make: Volkswagen
- Car Model: Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
- Membership No: 806
- Location: Johannesburg
Re: VR5 AQN : Is 5 Cyl standalone available?
Ray from Solid Cafe is busy with a VR5 in to a Fox and I am sure will have a lot of information, tips and tricks.
Current Garage:
Daily Drive: 2014 VW Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Project Fes: 1982 VW Golf GLS 1.5
Project FeO: 1966 VW Type 2 Transporter Kombi Split Window
Previous Garage:
Roxy: 2015 VW Golf R
Vagon: 2005 Audi B6 A4 1.8T (140kw) Avant
Project XXXX: 1967 VW Type 3 Variant (Squareback)
Project Betty: 2005 Polo 1.9 TDI (PD130) Sportline
Weekend Warrior: 1993 Volkswagen Caddy 2.0 16v ABF on ITB's
Daily Drive: 2014 VW Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
Project Fes: 1982 VW Golf GLS 1.5
Project FeO: 1966 VW Type 2 Transporter Kombi Split Window
Previous Garage:
Roxy: 2015 VW Golf R
Vagon: 2005 Audi B6 A4 1.8T (140kw) Avant
Project XXXX: 1967 VW Type 3 Variant (Squareback)
Project Betty: 2005 Polo 1.9 TDI (PD130) Sportline
Weekend Warrior: 1993 Volkswagen Caddy 2.0 16v ABF on ITB's
- markfish888
- Cadet
- Posts: 595
- Registered for: 13 years
- Car Make: VW
- Car Model: B7A4 -JETTA Mk2
- Membership No: 1787
- Location: Faerie Glen PRETORIA
Re: VR5 AQN : Is 5 Cyl standalone available?
Thank you Gentlemen! I appreciate it.
Will contact him.
I am planning full VR6 wide track front subframe and rear torsion beam swap, VR6 drive shafts , 5x100 hubs, brakes etc.
Was planning to do the Hydraulic clutch/ cableshift Gearbox Conversion too.
With VR6 or VR5 MK4 Jetta box was my initial though, with Mk4 Cable shift mechanism.
Power Output not too bothered, want a torquey cruiser for me and my son to play with on weekends.
Okay, I'll admit it: The reactions in Parking Lots/Traffic lights, from people trying to figure out why THAT 5Pot
noise is coming from something it shouldn't, might be a factor...
""has all the traps of the later VR6 motors related to gearbox options etc"" : Am i missing something else Sir?
PS : There is a Red 2door MK2 Golf, VR5 10 valve, from Poland, on Youtube, that makes my ears orgasm.
Will contact him.
I am planning full VR6 wide track front subframe and rear torsion beam swap, VR6 drive shafts , 5x100 hubs, brakes etc.
Was planning to do the Hydraulic clutch/ cableshift Gearbox Conversion too.
With VR6 or VR5 MK4 Jetta box was my initial though, with Mk4 Cable shift mechanism.
Power Output not too bothered, want a torquey cruiser for me and my son to play with on weekends.
Okay, I'll admit it: The reactions in Parking Lots/Traffic lights, from people trying to figure out why THAT 5Pot
noise is coming from something it shouldn't, might be a factor...
""has all the traps of the later VR6 motors related to gearbox options etc"" : Am i missing something else Sir?
PS : There is a Red 2door MK2 Golf, VR5 10 valve, from Poland, on Youtube, that makes my ears orgasm.
MK2's dont die, they just get faster!!
- jaredm
- Captain
- Posts: 2064
- Registered for: 16 years 8 months
- Location: Randburg
Re: VR5 AQN : Is 5 Cyl standalone available?
There was a red 2dr mk3 in Cape Town that was sold to Mamba sport in durbs recently. Car was built by the previous owner while he was in the UK. Had an emerald stand-alone ecu. It sounded insane.
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2015 Golf VII GTi Performance Pack DSG
Mk2 Golf 2.0l 16v Exec
Ex:
2012 Edition 35 Dsg CPI Stg2
Golf 6 .:R DSG CPI Stg2+
Scirocco 2.0TSi DSG K04
Golf 3 VR6 Turbo
Golf V GTi DSG
Mazda 3 MPS
Mk2 Golf 2.0l 16v Exec
Ex:
2012 Edition 35 Dsg CPI Stg2
Golf 6 .:R DSG CPI Stg2+
Scirocco 2.0TSi DSG K04
Golf 3 VR6 Turbo
Golf V GTi DSG
Mazda 3 MPS
- missioner
- Major
- Posts: 3991
- Registered for: 10 years 3 months
- Car Make: VW
- Car Model: '87 MK1 Golf Citi
Re: VR5 AQN : Is 5 Cyl standalone available?
From your last post it seems like you have done most of your homework.markfish888 wrote: *snip*
""has all the traps of the later VR6 motors related to gearbox options etc"" : Am i missing something else Sir?.
Lots of guys have this false notion that a 4pot gearbox will fit a VR motor. Which is not the case. The bolt pattern and the bell housing is different to accommodate the timing cover on the rear of the engine. If your plan is to use the same box it was fitted with and adapt the car to suit the box then you will have little to no issues with the mechanical side of things. Even engine mounts can be a bolt on affair with MK3 parts.
The fun part of this whole endeavour is if at some point the 5 banger starts to feel slow, it's a very turbo friendly motor much like the 6.
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'87 Golf 1 Olde Skewl OEM+
- markfish888
- Cadet
- Posts: 595
- Registered for: 13 years
- Car Make: VW
- Car Model: B7A4 -JETTA Mk2
- Membership No: 1787
- Location: Faerie Glen PRETORIA
Re: VR5 AQN : Is 5 Cyl standalone available?
Thank you Missioner
Correct, The 4 pot 02j wont fit and has 100mm inner flanges, the vr6 has 108mm.
Guys swap 100mm flanges into vr boxes to use mk2 gti or mk3 1.8i/2.0 std drive shafts.
But I stand to be corrected, the work server is blocking everything.
looking to "borrow" fabless manufacturing's ideas on the front cradle /mount and rear engine mount, if std mk3 stuff fouls on the bonnet
From their beautiful VR swap kit, @ $860 , it's a bit pricey to import.
Back to work, i need money to get this dream realized.
Correct, The 4 pot 02j wont fit and has 100mm inner flanges, the vr6 has 108mm.
Guys swap 100mm flanges into vr boxes to use mk2 gti or mk3 1.8i/2.0 std drive shafts.
But I stand to be corrected, the work server is blocking everything.
looking to "borrow" fabless manufacturing's ideas on the front cradle /mount and rear engine mount, if std mk3 stuff fouls on the bonnet
From their beautiful VR swap kit, @ $860 , it's a bit pricey to import.
Back to work, i need money to get this dream realized.
- missioner
- Major
- Posts: 3991
- Registered for: 10 years 3 months
- Car Make: VW
- Car Model: '87 MK1 Golf Citi
Re: VR5 AQN : Is 5 Cyl standalone available?
Sheesh a solid mount setup would be as harsh as all hell.
My suggestion is to buy the stock mounts and modify the car to accept them. Drives like stock and perfectly fine for a street setup.
Get a MK4 subframe and do some grinder surgery to install the dogbone mount resepticle into the MK3 subframe. Maybe the MK4 one bolts on, worth a try and see.
Make up mount plates using C.A.D. (cardboard aided design) and have them laser cut and bent into shape to be welded into the chassis. Then the motor will simply use the OEM parts. No fancy bits to hassle with when the break or don't fit properly. Now the the factory stuff it's open to aftermarket inserts and polyurethane bits designed for the original car the engine comes from.
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My suggestion is to buy the stock mounts and modify the car to accept them. Drives like stock and perfectly fine for a street setup.
Get a MK4 subframe and do some grinder surgery to install the dogbone mount resepticle into the MK3 subframe. Maybe the MK4 one bolts on, worth a try and see.
Make up mount plates using C.A.D. (cardboard aided design) and have them laser cut and bent into shape to be welded into the chassis. Then the motor will simply use the OEM parts. No fancy bits to hassle with when the break or don't fit properly. Now the the factory stuff it's open to aftermarket inserts and polyurethane bits designed for the original car the engine comes from.
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'87 Golf 1 Olde Skewl OEM+
- markfish888
- Cadet
- Posts: 595
- Registered for: 13 years
- Car Make: VW
- Car Model: B7A4 -JETTA Mk2
- Membership No: 1787
- Location: Faerie Glen PRETORIA
Re: VR5 AQN : Is 5 Cyl standalone available?
A customer of mine, who Builds Performance cars & plays with 5 cyl Ford ST''s,
gave me Phone number of the resident Wizzard @ Spitronics.
I need to get as much technical engine specs to him ( eg: SSP-195 but that for the 10 valve, can't find Self Study on the AQN 20 valve though)
They might be able to do something custom with a Mercury 2 ECU!
gave me Phone number of the resident Wizzard @ Spitronics.
I need to get as much technical engine specs to him ( eg: SSP-195 but that for the 10 valve, can't find Self Study on the AQN 20 valve though)
They might be able to do something custom with a Mercury 2 ECU!
MK2's dont die, they just get faster!!
-
- Lieutenant
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Re: VR5 AQN : Is 5 Cyl standalone available?
Fueltech can run VW 5 cylinder engines and is pre-defined with their configuration.
- markfish888
- Cadet
- Posts: 595
- Registered for: 13 years
- Car Make: VW
- Car Model: B7A4 -JETTA Mk2
- Membership No: 1787
- Location: Faerie Glen PRETORIA
- markfish888
- Cadet
- Posts: 595
- Registered for: 13 years
- Car Make: VW
- Car Model: B7A4 -JETTA Mk2
- Membership No: 1787
- Location: Faerie Glen PRETORIA