What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

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Deniboy
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Car Model: 1997 city golf 1.3

What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by Deniboy »

Hi guys could use some help on this topic i have a 1997 1.3 city golf ive been using ulp/unleaded fuel ever since i purchased it and wanted to know if that's correct or do i need to switch to lrp/leaded fuel the car starts to ping abit once the engine gets warmed up could it be that the octane rating in ulp is lower than lrp if so can the valve seals withstand the pressure from ulp fuel? the car moves well im abit skeptical to change to lrp because i dont want to interfere with any performance in the vehicle but at the same time i know pinging is not healthy and alot of people would say retard the ignition timing but how is it possible that its only pinging once at heated temperature please any help will be appreciated
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missioner
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by missioner »

Deniboy wrote:Hi guys could use some help on this topic i have a 1997 1.3 city golf ive been using ulp/unleaded fuel ever since i purchased it and wanted to know if that's correct or do i need to switch to lrp/leaded fuel the car starts to ping abit once the engine gets warmed up could it be that the octane rating in ulp is lower than lrp if so can the valve seals withstand the pressure from ulp fuel? the car moves well im abit skeptical to change to lrp because i dont want to interfere with any performance in the vehicle but at the same time i know pinging is not healthy and alot of people would say retard the ignition timing but how is it possible that its only pinging once at heated temperature please any help will be appreciated
Fuel has nothing to do with your issue, so LRP will not solve it.

Get the car checked out and tuned up.

There may be an underlying issue that is the cause of your pinging problem.

Go see a mechanic, preferably one that doesn't work under a tree.
'87 Golf 1 Olde Skewl OEM+
OettingerTDi
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by OettingerTDi »

I have a similar car as yours in daily use and have been using ULP since new. The engine / head was designed for use with ULP.

As stated by @missioner, have the car checked out with respect to ignition timing and fuel mixture, your car's timing appears to be advanced a tad more than what is required. A slight retard of the timing will not hurt the performance and you will, if tuned correctly, perhaps also see an improvement in fuel consumption.

Remember, pinging is pinging, regardless of engine temperature. Pinging = too much advance on timing.
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by VAG Fan »

Deniboy wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:30 amhow is it possible that its only pinging once at heated temperature
That is perfectly normal. I have hardly ever heard a cold engine ping.

In a cold engine,
... the mixture is richer (and rich combustion is cooler than lean)
... the uncombusted mixture is kept cool by the cold engine parts
... any carbon residues inside the combustion chamber are still relatively cold.

In a warm engine,
... the mixture is leaner (hotter combustion)
... the uncombusted mixture is heated up when it enters the engine
... carbon residues inside the combustion chamber can become glowing hot, and act as an igniter.

So, hot engines are much more prone to ping, because the whole combustion process is hotter, which in turn makes more pressure. And (excessive) heat and pressure are the causes of pinging.
Mark R.
- - - - - - - - - -
2004 VW Golf TDI, type 1J, AHF, 317k (2016-current) --- daily
1990 VW Fox, type 16, HM, 304k (2005-current) --- spare runaround
Previous:
1992 Audi 500 SE, type C4, AAR (2001-2020) --- nice while it lasted
1983 VW Golf GTS, type 17, FR (1992-2005) --- most fun car I've ever had
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by missioner »

VAG Fan wrote:
Deniboy wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:30 amhow is it possible that its only pinging once at heated temperature
That is perfectly normal. I have hardly ever heard a cold engine ping.

In a cold engine,
... the mixture is richer (and rich combustion is cooler than lean)
... the uncombusted mixture is kept cool by the cold engine parts
... any carbon residues inside the combustion chamber are still relatively cold.

In a warm engine,
... the mixture is leaner (hotter combustion)
... the uncombusted mixture is heated up when it enters the engine
... carbon residues inside the combustion chamber can become glowing hot, and act as an igniter.

So, hot engines are much more prone to ping, because the whole combustion process is hotter, which in turn makes more pressure. And (excessive) heat and pressure are the causes of pinging.
Just to add

With advanced timing the temps inside the cylinder do rise vs a properly tuned motor as the peak cylinder pressure is occurring too early. This adds to the friction/ mechanical losses of the motor as well as the piston and block retaining far more heat than normal due to the longer duration of combustion with a nearly stationary piston.

This simply adds to the pinging problem.

Left in this condition an engine will eventually self destruct.
'87 Golf 1 Olde Skewl OEM+
Deniboy
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by Deniboy »

Thanks guys for the help will get my mechanic to retard the timing to see if the ping stops and will take it from there
Deniboy
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by Deniboy »

OettingerTDi wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:16 pm I have a similar car as yours in daily use and have been using ULP since new. The engine / head was designed for use with ULP.

As stated by @missioner, have the car checked out with respect to ignition timing and fuel mixture, your car's timing appears to be advanced a tad more than what is required. A slight retard of the timing will not hurt the performance and you will, if tuned correctly, perhaps also see an improvement in fuel consumption.

Remember, pinging is pinging, regardless of engine temperature. Pinging = too much advance on timing.

ok so all i have to do is loosen the nut on the distributor bracket adjust the ignition timing by retarding it slightly will i have to turn clockwise or counter clockwise? sounds like a tricky job but i will make a marking so i can always retrace my steps
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by OettingerTDi »

It is very easy, first mark the current position of the dizzy as a reference point, loosen the nut and rotate, cannot recall which way is which, I think left is retard and right is advance. Make sure you have a timing light to do this properly. If I recall, the magic figure is 6 degrees. There are timing marks on the flywheel assembly, remove the green inspection cap on the gearbox casing to view.
Anton van Graan

Current:
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1998 Jetta 3 CLX (Taken by a friendly chap called Jack)
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1988 Ford Laser 1600i Sport
Deniboy
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by Deniboy »

ok perfect will give it a try this afternoon
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by VAG Fan »

The rotor turns clockwise when looking at it from the top.
So turning the base of the distributor clockwise retards the timing (idle will slow down on a normal carb model), and counterclockwise advances it (idle will speed up on a normal carb model). I agree with Anton, get a strobe to be able to adjust this properly.
Mark R.
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2004 VW Golf TDI, type 1J, AHF, 317k (2016-current) --- daily
1990 VW Fox, type 16, HM, 304k (2005-current) --- spare runaround
Previous:
1992 Audi 500 SE, type C4, AAR (2001-2020) --- nice while it lasted
1983 VW Golf GTS, type 17, FR (1992-2005) --- most fun car I've ever had
1978 Audi 100 GLS 5E, type 43, WC (1991-92) --- died in the side of a Rekord who cut me off
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by meghna31 »

Excellent thread..!!!
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Neuk
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by Neuk »

I use ULP in my '82 Golf and haven't had any issues so far, it does need to have the head reconditioned at some stage though as it has never been from what I can tell.
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Deniboy
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by Deniboy »

Neuk wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:43 pm I use ULP in my '82 Golf and haven't had any issues so far, it does need to have the head reconditioned at some stage though as it has never been from what I can tell.
I take it your vehicle doesn't ping?
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by Neuk »

Deniboy wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:27 pm
Neuk wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:43 pm I use ULP in my '82 Golf and haven't had any issues so far, it does need to have the head reconditioned at some stage though as it has never been from what I can tell.
I take it your vehicle doesn't ping?
Not that I have noticed but I don't drive her as often as I should.
Current Garage:
Daily Drive: 2014 VW Touareg 3.0 V6 TDi R-Line
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Vagon: 2005 Audi B6 A4 1.8T (140kw) Avant
Project XXXX: 1967 VW Type 3 Variant (Squareback)
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Weekend Warrior: 1993 Volkswagen Caddy 2.0 16v ABF on ITB's
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by VAG Fan »

I ran my '83 GTS (FR engine, relatively high compression IIRC) on ULP for several years, after LRP was phased out, and pinging is one thing it never, ever did.
Mark R.
- - - - - - - - - -
2004 VW Golf TDI, type 1J, AHF, 317k (2016-current) --- daily
1990 VW Fox, type 16, HM, 304k (2005-current) --- spare runaround
Previous:
1992 Audi 500 SE, type C4, AAR (2001-2020) --- nice while it lasted
1983 VW Golf GTS, type 17, FR (1992-2005) --- most fun car I've ever had
1978 Audi 100 GLS 5E, type 43, WC (1991-92) --- died in the side of a Rekord who cut me off
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Deniboy
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by Deniboy »

VAG Fan wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:21 pm I ran my '83 GTS (FR engine, relatively high compression IIRC) on ULP for several years, after LRP was phased out, and pinging is one thing it never, ever did.
So its certain now that my timing is abit too advanced. and it shows when the combustion is getting hot
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by VAG Fan »

As others have written: timing and mixture can play a role. Have it inspected. Don't just retard timing arbitrarily. Adjust it properly. If the pinging persists, you have a different problem.
Mark R.
- - - - - - - - - -
2004 VW Golf TDI, type 1J, AHF, 317k (2016-current) --- daily
1990 VW Fox, type 16, HM, 304k (2005-current) --- spare runaround
Previous:
1992 Audi 500 SE, type C4, AAR (2001-2020) --- nice while it lasted
1983 VW Golf GTS, type 17, FR (1992-2005) --- most fun car I've ever had
1978 Audi 100 GLS 5E, type 43, WC (1991-92) --- died in the side of a Rekord who cut me off
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Deniboy
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Re: What fuel should i use on my city 1.3 city golf

Post by Deniboy »

i retarded the timing last night very slightly the idle dropped very low and then i adjusted the idle mixture screw to get a steady idle and so far it never pinged up until now so far so good but plan on taking the car for a tune up to a specialist in the near future only issue im having is that i cant locate the nipple for the vacuum advance on the Carb i bought
a hose to fit it but had no luck
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