MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

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ClulessDeath
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MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by ClulessDeath »

Hi guy, I'm new here so sorry if this has been asked or is in the wrong section.

I took my car to the dyno last week(HOC Tuning in Mitchells plain) to get timing etc sorted as i was getting like 250kms out of R500 petrol, which is like 13l/100km i think.

They said it was pulling air in through the intake and compression was at about 50% on the first cylinder, he did it infront of me to show me. The rings also need to get done as it smokes when it revs high.

They sorted out timing etc and the car went from 34 to 52kw on their dyno but the engine isnt really running at its full potential.

Its going to cost about 5.5k for "rings big ends gaskets services kit valves head overhaul and labour" when i asked them how much it would be to repair.

The car is nearly on 350k kms so I want to know if its worth it to repair the motor as stated above, or if i should look into getting a motor from Mikes Place etc. If i go the route of a new motor, what would be the best option and how much am i looking at more or less?

I'm not looking to make 10 second passes here, just some reliability, decent fuel economy and maybe a little kick up the ass when I put my foot down every now and then haha.

Any input is appreciated :driving:
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by Pik Sooter »

Hey bud. The choice is yours, the 2.0L ABF's go for little money (I'm too sure on the price, but they not that expensive).
The management system for them is also quite simple to get setup, the guys that have done the ABF conversion will be able to tell me.
For 5.5K, it's not a bad price either, but will still be a 1.3Carb with 60/70kw.

Okes are making mad power with the ABF's, slapping turbo's on them.
Ultimately, the choice is yours and how much you want to spend.
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by panic-mechanic »

Yup ABF sells for the little price of around R18k these days.
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by missioner »

Find a 1.6l crank and stroke the motor to 1.4l

Do that with the rest of the repairs and you will be super happy and in for 15k at the most.

ABF from Mike's place is 15k on it's own without any supporting mods. If this is the way you want to go then this is what you will need to get to support the motor:
1. Gearbox 5 or 6 speed cable shift 02A type
2. Brakes 300mm rotor minimum
3. Driveshaft upgrade
4. Polyurethane engine mounts
5. Engjne management and wiring harness
6. Fuel pump, fuel lines and fuel tank to suit
7. Induction system
8. A whole assortment of small stuff that costs a packet
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by panic-mechanic »

Why the cable shift gearbox ?
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by ICE King »

To throw a spanner in the works , AGU is 11k and AUQ 16k also at Mikes Place.

But yeah thats just the engine price and with a 1.3 base , you going to have to replace/upgrade almost every single engine/drivetrain part for a safe & reliable build.
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by Unobeat »

@CluelessDeath
It really boils down to your budget as that gives you plenty of options and yes i hear what you say that you would like some Vava Voom under bonnet to be able to enjoy the car better but it costs money to get there.

Maybe check with Mikes Place how much is the 2E/ ADY motor as that is another option.?

I remember a few years ago i redid my 1400 Uno motor for R5000 through my mechanic. The car was very reliable before the rebuild and it needed same work as your motor and it was my daily doing hard labour with regards to kilos. To date after being rebuild it has done 120 000km reliably with no issues.
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by missioner »

@Panic Mechanic

The newer gearboxes like the 02A, can handle much higher power and torque than the 020. Also technologically it is superior.

Yes I know about the diff bolt kit and having different gears cut to reduce lateral loads and so on, but as a stock gearbox in a high torque application the 020 is less than reliable.

The cable shift gearbox family have other advantages like hydraulic clutch slave, cables dont change adjustment when the engine mount breaks and it doesn't have linkages that get in the way of the turbo down pipe. There are other reasons that it's better, but it's late and I can't think of them now, but you get my point.
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by panic-mechanic »

And it also adds around R10k to any build where you can simply drop in an 020 and be happy for a long time. They don't just explode becuase an abf is running on it and they shift a lot faster than 02a style boxes.
So yes if we are talking turbo big power cars sure add the 02a into the build list but for a stock abf a FFZ does just fine.
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by ClulessDeath »

I completely forgot about this post.

If I was to do a conversion to any given motor, I would most likely want to work with 15k at most in a perfect world. This would be with factoring in a brake upgrade as I don't want to be the idiot making power but not being able to stop the car.

Don't know if I said this but I'm pretty clueless(yay for username pun) when it comes to what motor/parts can go together.

Mike's literally just posted that they got 2l 8v azj x flow motor for R5950 VAT inclusive. Would that be a good direction to go with my budget? Factoring in labor, engine, brakes and whatever else is needed? I have a 5speed gearbox so I would assume that wouldn't need to be replaced as well?

The main thing I'm actually looking for here is fuel economy to be honest, with a bonus of having extra power. 300-350km on R500 is killing me at the moment. My friend is pushing around 120-140kw on his MK1(cant remember the number) and is getting around the same economy as I am, so that says a lot.
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by panic-mechanic »

You won't beat that 2l 8v on price so considering your budget even that will be a squeeze but might very likely be the only option for you. The 5 speed box you have will work.
by the way km/rand is a very bad fuel consumption measurement seeing that the price of fuel is constantly changing.....
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by c1992 »

panic-mechanic wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 6:41 am You won't beat that 2l 8v on price so considering your budget even that will be a squeeze but might very likely be the only option for you. The 5 speed box you have will work.
by the way km/rand is a very bad fuel consumption measurement seeing that the price of fuel is constantly changing.....
Me and my brother did a 2l 8v swap a few years a go on a citi 1.3. We carried as much as we could from the old motor and kept it the carb, it saved us a lot of money. The citi was a fun little car with the 2l but with our heavy foot the fuel consumption was not that great.
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by ClulessDeath »

panic-mechanic wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 6:41 am You won't beat that 2l 8v on price so considering your budget even that will be a squeeze but might very likely be the only option for you. The 5 speed box you have will work.
by the way km/rand is a very bad fuel consumption measurement seeing that the price of fuel is constantly changing.....
OK well I threw in petrol like 2 days ago. 8.11 litres and it looks like I'm gonna be back on where I started at about 70ish kms. I know it's not 100% accurate for getting fuel economy but yeah it looks like I'm doing about 11-12l per 100km.

On a side note. Are there motors that I could just drop and go on the 1.3? Without having to worry about the tank, management etc etc? Because I mean if I'm gonna be paying 5ish to just do a "repair" on an old motor, could I not just rather see if mikes or somewhere will have a motor that I could just drop in for a similar price. The azj is a nice price for 5900 but the extra stuff I need to do along with it brings the price up
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by ClulessDeath »

Also, are there any motors that would be able to do get economy like the newer cars? Like I'm pretty sure my friend gets around roughly twice as much as I am getting out of his economy in his 2012 figo. Maybe like 70-80% more but yeah. I'm very new to the whole engine game so excuse me :)
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by panic-mechanic »

You will never get the economy for a citi golf on carb that more modern aerodynamic shapes on multipoint fuel injection get. No matter what you put in there. If that is your economy target then sell it na buy an !up or a figo or something modern.
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by ICE King »

Agree with Panic,

I think for what you are asking "economy and considering installing another motor with supporting mods will cost too much" I would suggest you sell your vehicle, add some extra cash(you would've used for the conversion anyway) and buy a car with good ecomony.I fear that even if you do the conversion , you might not get what you envision.

Perhaps , get a 1.4i or 1.6i MP9 citi golf? their consumption is better than a carb, if you behave your right foot , you can get 600km's off a tank but you'll never get modern day consumption's with old tech.

I too drive a modded 1.3 carb and get (10-12l/100km) ,think part of the reason is I'm always revving to get the thing moving ,
amusingly I get better consumption (7.9l /100km) in my polo 1.8T at part throttle.
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by missioner »

I will testify to consumption figures in a 1.3 citi.

I used to drive mostly open road commute to work from one small town to another. Round trip was about 85km a day and 36km at highway speeds each way.
Average: 540km from a tank
Best: 580km
Worst: 240km ( I drove like a hooligan and as fast as I could go foot flat all the time)

I then did a motor swap and increased the displacement 600cc. Also did some jetting to the carb and a modification to the second stage. That carb has died so now a stock replacement is in its stead. I do now mostly short distances and town driving and dont record the consumption. Recently I did some work in Maritzburg and was commuting from Howick every day about 80km, mixed freeway and stop start city traffic. The car is also not properly tuned as I have an issue with the return fuel system and have blocked it off for the time being. I got 580km from the tank.
Best: 760km JHB trip open road all the way N3, drove there, came back and only filled at Harrismith for peace of mind.
Average: 650km same commute as with the 1.3 motor
Worst: 250ish km. Same driving style although this time I was not reaching terminal velocity at 165km/h

I dont regret the change, but if I'd had the money for a better car I would have bought it.

Your choice and best of luck either way
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Re: MK1 1.3 carb. Overhaul/repair or New engine

Post by Pik Sooter »

What Panic said above is true, "Never build what you can buy!". Sell the little 1.3 and look at a 9n/9n3 Polo TDI / Jetta 4 TDI / Golf 5 TDI etc. Excellent fuel consumption, responds well to mods and has a nice punch with oodles of torque.
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