9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

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9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:31 am

Hi dubbers,

Hope all is well.

Wanted to find out how easy it is to fit the 9a and pl engines into a mk1.

What needs to be changed?

Can i expect faster times on a 1/4 mile then the 15's im running with my 2.0 8v with 288 cam and stage 2 head done by 8v performance? This will probably be standard for now with cams and headwork in the near future.

However, im contemplating using the head on my 8v block for turbo application?

Have tried finding info however not finding the right answers.Image

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by Donavan » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:31 am

9a will be straight swop from 2e. You can use the same engine and gearbox mounts.

Might need to get an aftermarket fuel rail and 16v branch and maybe some mods to dizzy as sometimes the cap clashes with the
brake cylinder.

ABF is the easiest. Just fit as is and hook up an aftermarket ecu and your sorted.
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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:06 pm

Thanks for the feedback Donavan.

Issue is i still need to import into namibia that comes with extra costs.

Would love the abf... However it will set the budget back quite a bit.

In terms of the 9a what could possibly be changed ie. Abf intake and dizzy? Ir would this still clash? Would want to do brake booster delete as well, so thinking this might be the perfect time.

I can sell the 8v with loom and ecu to recover costs.

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by PapaJo » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:18 pm

9a is short block 2L 16V. PL are almost the same as KR 1800 16V, cam duration and few other differences. ABF is a tall block, same block height as the 2e. ABF has a single window in dizzy with a 60-2 sensor in the block next to the oil filter housing to the starter side on the block. If you want to use ecu like Dicktator std on ABF, you need to change to a 4 window in the ABF dizzy or get a 60-2 ecu to use the sensor in the block. PL and 9a uses a 4 window dizzy and Dicktator std can be used.
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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:59 pm

Thanks Papajo... Good feedback as always...

Ran drags last night in Namibia.

Cars running same mods as mine were struggling, however the timing system broke after the first few runs of the night.

A 8v uflow with short gear ratios and throttles didnt even come close.

In terms of the 9a and the Pl what would be better for the interim that will make nicr power until i have all the goodies to plug the head on the long block to turbo. If possibly i can ad them to my 8v block.

If yes, what will i need in terms of running the head....

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by PapaJo » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:07 pm

blou_poot wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:59 pm
Thanks Papajo... Good feedback as always...

Ran drags last night in Namibia.

Cars running same mods as mine were struggling, however the timing system broke after the first few runs of the night.

A 8v uflow with short gear ratios and throttles didnt even come close.

In terms of the 9a and the Pl what would be better for the interim that will make nicr power until i have all the goodies to plug the head on the long block to turbo. If possibly i can ad them to my 8v block.

If yes, what will i need in terms of running the head....

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You're welcome and Thank you.

In terms of 9a and PL, the 9a is a 2L motor and a bit more kw's than the PL. Both can benefit from a nice set of cams (268/276 or 276/276/or 276/288) with a branch and 57 to 63 progressive free flow system. Adding a port match and light polish to the ports and you can gain a few kw together with a cam set and branch.

Slapping the 16V head on your 8V block and pistons works very well and is bullet proof and gives you around 8,5:1 compression ratio, when turbo charging. Remember to cut valve pockets for the inlet valves from the 16V head in to the 2e pistons. A turbo manifold, injectors and fuel rail, turbo and FPR and other items required for turbo conversion. Check the forum out as there are lots of info and builds like this.

Using the 9a or PL head on your 2e will work together with the 16V crank and intermediate shaft pulleys, you can also swap over the 16V intermediate shaft (check the intermediate shaft two bearing sizes though) with the drive gear for the oil pump and get an ABF oil pump or keep your intermediate shaft and modify the tip to suit the 16V intermediate shaft pulley and use the 2e intermediate shaft and distributor to drive the 2e oil pump. Some guys cut the distributor short then and blank the distributor casing off. Upgrading the cams from the 9a or PL heads to ABF cams is a good choice for more extra power when turbo charging. If you ran aftermarket cams as N/A on the 16V, it will not work well on a turbo charged 16V application.

You will need to run either a distributor or 60-2 trigger wheel setup and ecu to match.

It all depends how deep is your pockets.
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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:49 pm

Great... Will choose one now to run NA... And start planning the turbo build.

Will do proper research regarding the turbo build as well...

Will run the 16v on mp9 with a remap on the ecu, or just run it on the diktator...

Need to change my gear ratios as i run 3 gears accross the 1/4 mile...

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by PapaJo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:22 am

Plan right and get Dicktator now and then you can use it when going turbo route. No need to spend money now on MP9 re map now and then spend money later on for Dicktator when you go turbo.
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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:42 am

Luckily i already have the std dicktator... This will work right? as i will not be running 60-20

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by PapaJo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:56 pm

blou_poot wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:42 am
Luckily i already have the std dicktator... This will work right? as i will not be running 60-20

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Yes the Dicktator std will work on the 9a and PL motors and when you turbo too. When you turbo, map sensor must be used and not TPS.

Will work on the ABF too, if you change the window in the ABF dizzy to a 4 window.
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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:05 pm

Great... Thanks for the feedback...

Any issues with the throttle bodies of the 16v motors i should be aware of?

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by PapaJo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:42 pm

blou_poot wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:05 pm
Great... Thanks for the feedback...

Any issues with the throttle bodies of the 16v motors i should be aware of?

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:48 pm

Thats when running with throttles?

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by PapaJo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:55 pm

blou_poot wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:48 pm
Thats when running with throttles?

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Yes, sir.

If you talk about the std throttle body on the intake manifold, no issues on them and clears the bonnet.
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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:35 pm

PapaJo wrote:
blou_poot wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:48 pm
Thats when running with throttles?

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Yes, sir.

If you talk about the std throttle body on the intake manifold, no issues on them and clears the bonnet.
Cool.

Do i need to change the throttle body on the 9a if i wanted to run mp9?

What will be the price of a fuel rail and branches and where would i get these as im in Namibia?

Whats the difference between the 8v and 16v branches can i possibly mod or would i definitely need another one?

In terms of the dizzy of the 9a do they have 4 windows already... Not to worried about the master brake cylinder at this point.

What about injectors, pulleys?

If i would rather fit an abf what changes will be needed? I believe just dizzy?

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by panic-mechanic » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:51 pm

blou_poot wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:35 pm
PapaJo wrote:
blou_poot wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:48 pm
Thats when running with throttles?

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Yes, sir.

If you talk about the std throttle body on the intake manifold, no issues on them and clears the bonnet.
Cool.

Do i need to change the throttle body on the 9a if i wanted to run mp9? Yes and you will have to make an adaptor to fit it.

What will be the price of a fuel rail and branches and where would i get these as im in Namibia? No idea where to get. Mr turbo used to sell.

Whats the difference between the 8v and 16v branches can i possibly mod or would i definitely need another one? Very different spacing - cannot modify it. Viper sells a ready made one.

In terms of the dizzy of the 9a do they have 4 windows already... Not to worried about the master brake cylinder at this point. Yes 4 window

What about injectors, pulleys? VR6 ones does just fine actually.

If i would rather fit an abf what changes will be needed? I believe just dizzy? No it has a dissy. Just need to stick a 4 window trigger in or use 60-2 management. If you want mp9 you will have to fot an obd2 vr throttle body.

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:04 pm

panic-mechanic wrote:
blou_poot wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:35 pm
PapaJo wrote:
blou_poot wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:48 pm
Thats when running with throttles?

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Yes, sir.

If you talk about the std throttle body on the intake manifold, no issues on them and clears the bonnet.
Cool.

Do i need to change the throttle body on the 9a if i wanted to run mp9? Yes and you will have to make an adaptor to fit it.

What will be the price of a fuel rail and branches and where would i get these as im in Namibia? No idea where to get. Mr turbo used to sell.

Whats the difference between the 8v and 16v branches can i possibly mod or would i definitely need another one? Very different spacing - cannot modify it. Viper sells a ready made one.

In terms of the dizzy of the 9a do they have 4 windows already... Not to worried about the master brake cylinder at this point. Yes 4 window

What about injectors, pulleys? VR6 ones does just fine actually.

If i would rather fit an abf what changes will be needed? I believe just dizzy? No it has a dissy. Just need to stick a 4 window trigger in or use 60-2 management. If you want mp9 you will have to fot an obd2 vr throttle body.

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Thanks Panic,

I guess i would rathef fork out the extra rands to get the abf is it seems less of a mission...

Fit dicktator...
Sell mp9 ecu and loom...
Sell branch to get 16v one... Need to check if we have in Namibia.
In terms of dizzy will i need to change to 4 window if i run the dickator?

What consumables will be needed/modded? Water pipes etc...

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by PapaJo » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:48 pm

In addition to panic’s reply, read this
https://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?t=113640

As for a 16V, it has larger ports than a 8V and the port spacing is different to mention some of the differences. A decent 16V branch is in the order of 2000-2500 rand. Viper 16V branch, just under 2500. If you have a good exhaust shop in Windhoek they can possibly build you one, provided they have done building branches before.

Some pipes will need to be changed for 16V fitment. Top radiator hose and maybe the steel water pipe and its connections to the water bottle. You will only know once you fit motor to see if all pipes are on the bought motor and what other consumables is neede. Difficult to give you a list of everything (consumables) needed without knowing what is on the motor.

If you are going to use your std Dicktator, you will need to change the dizzy to 4 window on ABF motor. If you get a 60-2 ecu, use the 60-2 sensor in the ABF block.
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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:55 pm

PapaJo wrote:In addition to panic’s reply, read this
https://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?t=113640

As for a 16V, it has larger ports than a 8V and the port spacing is different to mention some of the differences. A decent 16V branch is in the order of 2000-2500 rand. Viper 16V branch, just under 2500. If you have a good exhaust shop in Windhoek they can possibly build you one, provided they have done building branches before.

Some pipes will need to be changed for 16V fitment. Top radiator hose and maybe the steel water pipe and its connections to the water bottle. You will only know once you fit motor to see if all pipes are on the bought motor and what other consumables is neede. Difficult to give you a list of everything (consumables) needed without knowing what is on the motor.

If you are going to use your std Dicktator, you will need to change the dizzy to 4 window on ABF motor. If you get a 60-2 ecu, use the 60-2 sensor in the ABF block.
Thanks PapaJo.

Will hopefully buy the 9a.

Possibly getting a fuel rail and injectors for a good price... Waiting on feedback.

Branch i will be getting for 1k, need to go and check it.

Other stuff should be easily sorted other than the dizzy... Should however not be a train smash.

Would rather spend the extra on cams for now than buying the abf... Will send the head to Sarel at later stage to make some magic....

Looking for a little more power for now and working on the looks... Not in a hurry to finish conversion so if needs be i can wait for parts from SA.

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:04 pm

Paid today for the 9a

Will upload images and info once received as well as what is needed etc.

Im getting headers for 1k and fuel rail and injectors for 1.2k in Namibia.

See rail attched.

I have a mp9 tb with broken idle stepper which i will add to the intake with an adapter which still needs to be made. Since i will be using dicktator this should not be an issue?

As can be seen in image... This is a kr motor in Namibia with mp9 throttle body.

Wish i had it in already as there will be racing this weekend and i sold my engine...ImageImage

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by PapaJo » Tue May 01, 2018 2:08 pm

Why don’t you stick to the 9a tb?
Mp9 tb will work as the picture you have posted show. You will need to drill and tap Mp9 tb for idle adjustment screw on the butterfly cam arm as you are not going to use the stepper motor for idke control.
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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Tue May 01, 2018 2:48 pm

Will the 9a tb work with the dicktator?

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by panic-mechanic » Tue May 01, 2018 7:28 pm

running dicttor on manifold pressure you don't need to change the throttle body.
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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by blou_poot » Tue May 01, 2018 7:56 pm

panic-mechanic wrote:running dicttor on manifold pressure you don't need to change the throttle body.
Meaning i will not be able to run tps on that tb?

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Re: 9a and pl mk1 conversion possible

Post by panic-mechanic » Tue May 01, 2018 8:13 pm

9a if you get the right version should have TPS but why bother? do you wan to run some insanely long cams?.
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