Dicktator ignition help.

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THANAS
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by THANAS »

panic-mechanic wrote:You don't need tps nor manifold presure normanything to get abasic fixed ignition curve to start the car. Once it is running you can maybe put it on manifold presure to vary the curve. For now it will go up and down with rpm in one column.
:thumbup: makes sense, in which case you definitely can't have that -8 to 32 deg timing ramp in place in the 0% column. That needs to be removed. My previous comment stands with regards to that.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by panic-mechanic »

It will make no diffence at all currently as it will just go up and down in the column the red block sits in as per his screenshot.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by THANAS »

panic-mechanic wrote:It will make no diffence at all currently as it will just go up and down in the column the red block sits in as per his screenshot.
The same principle still applies to the 25% column. If it cranks at 350 rpm, the advance at that point will be 19 degrees BTDC by interpolation. Unless he has a diesel starter motor. But as the spark plugs are firing without the motor cranking, I think the problem lies elsewhere.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by PapaJo »

Any updates here??

Did it start??
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by Kevin007 »

Hi..

Is there any chance some has map settings for 1.4 8v. 10fs. C3 citroen..


I have no tps,, using vacumm, 60-2 dicktator, opel corsa coil pack.. I can only find std 1600 8v settings on the CD.


Thank you
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by Kevin007 »

Hi..

Is there any chance some has map settings for 1.4 8v. 10fs. C3 citroen..


I have no tps,, using vacumm, 60-2 dicktator, opel corsa coil pack.. I can only find std 1600 8v settings on the CD.


Thank you
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by PapaJo »

Kevin007 wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:44 am Hi..

Is there any chance some has map settings for 1.4 8v. 10fs. C3 citroen..


I have no tps,, using vacumm, 60-2 dicktator, opel corsa coil pack.. I can only find std 1600 8v settings on the CD.


Thank you
The 1600 8v base map and settings should work. You can load it. If it does not work, you will need to look at the settings for ignition trigger and trigger angle and start adjusting them. Ensure that it is set to 4 cylinders and ignition divide of 2 and start with a 45 trigger angle, 2,5ms coil charge time. Trial this by observing when trying to start. Nine of us here has set this up on a Citroen before, but the principle and setup is the same.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by panic-mechanic »

honstly - how many different threads are you going to revive for this?. just keep aksing on the one where you now already got answers.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by Ryanmd »

Good day. Can i also ask assistance? Im also battling abit with the igni/ion part of the dictator and calibration. I have ignition on trying to setup the parameter but the coil and tp100 got so hot i couldn't touch it. Also it sounds like the dizzy is contantly sparking. Wired up the management to the T as per diagrams. Also when i test for spark on plug lead 1 there is nothing. Any advice please? Current setup it golf 2litre 8v head with 276h cam,bottom end is 1.8kjet with caravelle piston conversion and 2litre steel crank.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by PapaJo »

Post some pictures of you main page showing your current settings. Did you load a base map into the ecu?
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by UDC »

Ryanmd wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 6:32 pm Good day. Can i also ask assistance? Im also battling abit with the igni/ion part of the dictator and calibration. I have ignition on trying to setup the parameter but the coil and tp100 got so hot i couldn't touch it. Also it sounds like the dizzy is contantly sparking. Wired up the management to the T as per diagrams. Also when i test for spark on plug lead 1 there is nothing. Any advice please? Current setup it golf 2litre 8v head with 276h cam,bottom end is 1.8kjet with caravelle piston conversion and 2litre steel crank.
no spark usually is the hall sensor in the dizzy

Hall Sender - testing
Note: A digital multi-meter should be used for testing. Do not use a test lamp

1. Release the lead connector from the Hall sender unit. Check the voltage supply to the sender unit by connecting a multi-meter between pin 1 and 3 of the hall sender plug, then switch on the ignition. A minimum reading of 5 volts should be indicated, if not check the FEI control unit and wiring.

2. To check the signal from the Hall sender unit, slide the rubber grommet away from the sender plug and with the plug connected, attach the diode test light to its centre and outer (brown/white) terminals. Operate the starter motor and check that the LED is seen to flicker. If it does not, the Hall sender unit is at fault and must be renewed.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by PapaJo »

Did you upload a startup map and checked settings on the main tab?

Post a picture of the settings and we can check if you are on the right track with the settings.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by Ryanmd »

Good day. Attached is the map after i set it to 20degrees. Also the preloaded map that was with i loaded which was 1800 8v which did start and i had car idling till fan came on about 3 times. Also i did check the wiring more than several times and its soldered and joint correctly. Only issue i have been battling with was the 2 pick up wires from the dictator. Green that says distributor amd yellow/black that says it goes to tp100 pin 6 green/white trace. However i did not cut this wire before but car did start and idle as said. What was happening is that the module would get so hot causing the coil to get hot aswell just with ignition on(no start) to check setup of the ecu. Today i googled dictator support and called and the guy advised me that i need to cut the green/white wire then wire the green from ecu to dizzy side and yellow/black to pin6 going to tp100. Did so but there is no spark. I founf that pump also does not prime but runs continuously. There is a 5pin relay in. What i also noticed was yesterday when it was idling the car did not want to switch off after i turn key back. Double checked wiring again at this point and all still seemed to be okay and properly insulated. I tested the hall sender aswell and it is working. Took it out of the block and turned it with dizzy plug in. If the green/white trace wire is connected with ign on then there is pulse on injectors and spark to the leads. When the green/white is cut and connected as yellow/black to tp100 and green from ech to dizzy with ecu plugged in and i turn the dizzy again to check for pulse then there is nothing. I will try and do the tests with multimeter as mentioned.

I was advised to test for pulse with test light at pin6. How do i use the multimeter there as i do not use a test light? Image

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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

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More info Image

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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by Ryanmd »

Main setupImage

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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by Ryanmd »

yes i did.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by Ryanmd »

UDC wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 3:51 pm
Ryanmd wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 6:32 pm Good day. Can i also ask assistance? Im also battling abit with the igni/ion part of the dictator and calibration. I have ignition on trying to setup the parameter but the coil and tp100 got so hot i couldn't touch it. Also it sounds like the dizzy is contantly sparking. Wired up the management to the T as per diagrams. Also when i test for spark on plug lead 1 there is nothing. Any advice please? Current setup it golf 2litre 8v head with 276h cam,bottom end is 1.8kjet with caravelle piston conversion and 2litre steel crank.
no spark usually is the hall sensor in the dizzy

Hall Sender - testing
Note: A digital multi-meter should be used for testing. Do not use a test lamp

1. Release the lead connector from the Hall sender unit. Check the voltage supply to the sender unit by connecting a multi-meter between pin 1 and 3 of the hall sender plug, then switch on the ignition. A minimum reading of 5 volts should be indicated, if not check the FEI control unit and wiring.

2. To check the signal from the Hall sender unit, slide the rubber grommet away from the sender plug and with the plug connected, attach the diode test light to its centre and outer (brown/white) terminals. Operate the starter motor and check that the LED is seen to flicker. If it does not, the Hall sender unit is at fault and must be renewed.
Good day. so i have tried this tests with a multimeter and testing signal wire with the brown/white then there is nothing,but testing with one lead on the positive side then there is signal. tested and tried with 2 dizzy's now and its the same thing. im getting pulse on injectors but still no spark on the plug leads.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by PapaJo »

@Raynmd,

The signal wire from distributor (green with white trace) has to be cut and the distributor side of the wire is then connected to the green wire on pin 1 on Dictator to get the trigger pulse into the ecu. Cut this about 1ocm from the TP100 end as it its easier to join wires at the TP100 end, than running one wire to distributor and other back to TP100. The yellow with black trace (ignition 1 output from Dicktator) from pin 6 on ecu plug is then connected to the pin 6 wire from TP100, this is the giving the coil pulse from Dicktator through to TP100.

I think you might have fried either the TP100 or the Dicktator ignition output resistor inside the ecu and it would be best to inspect that and double check both. If it was running before you cut the wires, you had permanent power to the TP100 and the spark was stillprovided as per normal carb TP100 wiring without trigger from ecu, just from distributor. That would explain why the car didn't want to switch off and and why the TP100 was overheating.

Looking at your pictures, the following:
1. Cylnders = 4 is correct,
2. ignition divide = 2 is correct,
3. The fuel pump prime value of 1 second is too short, select either 5 or 8 seconds for fuel pump prime,
4. Start prime value of 3.500 is okayish. Normally closer to 3.600 to 4.100, but ok for now,
5. Coil charge time of 2.00 is at the bottom of the scal and might give a too short spark, increase this to 2.500. DONOT exceed 3.00 as this may cause damage to your coil depending on type of coil you use,
6. Trigger angle of 30 is too fast, change this to a value between 40-45. Sweet spot is most of the times 42-43 degrees on trigger angle. Ensure you lock your distributor in at less +-45 degrees btdc or you will get rotor phasing with spark jumping between sparkplugs when you switch on the ignition. That is halfway between no: 1 pin and no:2 pin on the distributor cap. It could vary and needs to be manually turned by hand during cranking until you get your car to start. Your distributor should be the type with no vacuum advance to prevent mechanical advance or vacuum advance from distributor.
7. I see you have selected TPS on you selection and not MAP. With that in mind, you need to calibrate your TPS signal for zero (0%) and 100% in order for the ecu to know where is the TPS reference. If you do not know how to perform this calibration, refer to the Dicktator manual or just ask here and I will explain. Is there any specific reason you have chosen TPS over MAP? MAP is a lot easier to setup and only requires the little pipe from ecu to be connected to the small vacuum source nipple on either the intake or on the booster pipe non return valve.
8. THe fuel and timing values on their respective tabs are all default values for startup.
9. 20 degrees is the default for timing values and that will get you started and then you need to use a timing light, preferably an advanced timing light where you can dial in the 20 degrees timing and then you turn distributor to where the front crank timing mark is lined up with the arrow on the cover. After this you can change the timing in the map to the indicated red block where it will be idle to any value, like say 10 and the timing on motor will then be 10 degrees. Timing is then calibrated and you need to fill out timing values in the timing map or take it to someone to tune for you.
10. On the fueling map the 1.500 value on 1000 rpm in the 0% row might need to be increased a bit. Increase to a value of around 1.600 to give you a richer value and more fuel for starters.
11. Your battery voltage indicates 11.44 on you picture. If this voltage is below 10V during cranking of motor you will need to charge up your battery as Dicktator does not like to work below 10V.
12. If the fuel pump is running continuosly, was this when you switched ignition on or afterwards? During ignition on fuel pump will prime for the set time on main page and then switch off. It will then run again once rpm higher than 250 rpm is seen during motor cranking. If it was running continuously with just ignition switched on, it is either a wiring fault or you have high rpm reading displayed without motor running at all. Confirm this, please.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by Ryanmd »

I assumed that the ign driver could be fried. And the wire is cut and joint as you mentioned. I will try and set the ign timing as explain later today. Is there anyway of fixing the ign trigger driver on the ecu if its blown? Also fuel pump has been running with ign on since i wired up the ecu hence why the priming is set so low to see if it will go off after ign on but it does not. Is there no other way to get the ignition to drive the coil? Also its probably not advisable to to tap into coil- for ign trigger i suppose? Thanks for the detailed update. Ill give it a shot later when i get home.

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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by PapaJo »

You have to use the ignition out from the ecu. The ecu control both fuel and timing on separate circuits.

You can take the ecu to Dicktator to test and repair for you. Undo the cover plate and remove the ecu pc board and check if there is any visible signs of burnt or damaged components.

For a first start the TPS calibration or MAP connection is not necessary and it will cause timing to stay in one row. All you need are timing and fuel values. For your current TPS selection, fuel settings in the 0% column above the 1000 rpm block will need more fuel on the current map. Change to MAP and start first. Once you can start and idle on MAP, then change to TPS if you like. Bear in mind you need to adjust some of the values again when switching between MAP anf TPS selection.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by Ryanmd »

Good day. So today i did as mentioned. Tps calibrated and values changed as mentioned. Still no start and spark. Pulse on dizzy going thru as i double checked again with new dizzy (both non-vac),added extra fuel to. Do i need to have the ecu ignition connection for the management to work or can i not use the dizzy to control the ignition spark? Checked ecu circuits and dont see no burnt markings. What i did notice was so an off dry colour mark almost like dried foam from toothpaste near on of the pins at main main connector pin but it doesnt seem burnt. Also a mark like that near 2 resistors over an ign circuit. Will add two pictures to show.

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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

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Ryanmd wrote:Good day. So today i did as mentioned. Tps calibrated and values changed as mentioned. Still no start and spark. Pulse on dizzy going thru as i double checked again with new dizzy (both non-vac),added extra fuel to. Do i need to have the ecu ignition connection for the management to work or can i not use the dizzy to control the ignition spark? Checked ecu circuits and dont see no burnt markings. What i did notice was so an off dry colour mark almost like dried foam from toothpaste near on of the pins at main main connector pin but it doesnt seem burnt. Also a mark like that near 2 resistors over an ign circuit. Will add two pictures to show.

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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by Ryanmd »

Ryanmd wrote:
Ryanmd wrote:Good day. So today i did as mentioned. Tps calibrated and values changed as mentioned. Still no start and spark. Pulse on dizzy going thru as i double checked again with new dizzy (both non-vac),added extra fuel to. Do i need to have the ecu ignition connection for the management to work or can i not use the dizzy to control the ignition spark? Checked ecu circuits and dont see no burnt markings. What i did notice was so an off dry colour mark almost like dried foam from toothpaste near on of the pins at main main connector pin but it doesnt seem burnt. Also a mark like that near 2 resistors over an ign circuit. Will add two pictures to show.

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Pic2

Could you perhaps advice what readings i am supposed to get here? The 2 outer resistors read about 10.2 ohms and the rest in the centre reads about 33ohms. Could those marks be and indication of a blown ign driver?Image

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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by PapaJo »

Those look all normal and like solder marks only.

The resistance readings you gave at pic2 is correct and nothing to worry there.

You need the ignition connection to work for your spark. You cannot use any other wat as this will defeat the object of using the ecu and ramping timing as required. Std wiring direct to the TP100, coil and distributor may get you to start, but your timing will be flat and only on that one value only seeing that you have the distributor without any mechanical advance or vacuum advance.

Can you take a picture of the Data Page tab during engine crank to see the indications you have there. A short you-tube video will also work. To shed more light on the subject to why you are not getting spark, that page will show battery voltage, crank rpm, injector and timing values.
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Re: Dicktator ignition help.

Post by Ryanmd »

I will try and do that as i disconnected the ecu and tried fitting the std ecu and short loom to see if it can start but no luck as the spark is also a no show here hence why im wanting to move over the the dictator.

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