Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by WeirdSteam »

Turn the motor 1 full rotation by hand till the flywheel mark line up and check where your dizzy rotor points to and where your cam marks are, sounds like your timing is out by 180°

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by missioner »

Rynard wrote:Image
Once you have all the marks lined up simultaneously as shown in your pics, your car should fire up and purr like a kitten.

Check the firing order of the HT leads. Turning clockwise 1-3-4-2. Number 1 must be on the mark on the distributor.
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

When I turn a full rotation by hand the flywheel marks line up. But not the camshaft or distributor. Only when I make 2 full rotations by hand, then the camshaft and distributor will line up agian??????
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by missioner »

Rynard wrote:When I turn a full rotation by hand the flywheel marks line up. But not the camshaft or distributor. Only when I make 2 full rotations by hand, then the camshaft and distributor will line up agian??????
This is correct as the camshaft and intermediate shaft (distributor and oil pump) rotate at half the crank speed. Very normal on a four stroke engine.

What positions are your spark plug wires in relation to the mark on the distributor?
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

Well, Spark plug wire #1 corresponds with the notch / line where rotor points, then underneath is plug wire #2, next to #1 is #3 and below is #4.

So basically if referring to an square starting from the left top corner it will be like

Image
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by missioner »

Rynard wrote:Well, Spark plug wire #1 corresponds with the notch / line where rotor points, then underneath is plug wire #2, next to #1 is #3 and below is #4.

So basically if referring to an square starting from the left top corner it will be like

Image
That looks about right. Its running clock wise and should work.

Try it and let us know
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

But that's the whole prob bothering me, Timing marks line up, spark plug leads are correct, everything is set the way it should be.

This is my latest experience (as all previous ones)

Start car, doesn't start immediately, eventually takes but idling so rough and stalls.

Cannot see notch on flywheel at all when timing light flashes there, then I loosen Distributor, turn almost half way before I eventually start to see the notch on flywheel.

Trying to set it then at 3BTDC, as per sticker in bonnet but still no luck, turn it to 6BTDC, idles still uneven and misfires. Set it to 24BTDC idles higher and bit better, set it to 18BTDC, idles now at 1100rpm, still jurks a bit when pushing pedal down (not hard) so what the #@&$J is up with this???

Sorry guys know I must be frustrating you all, but at this point I'd rather walk then struggle
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by panic-mechanic »

One quick question. Initially after startting it , you are turning the distributor anti clockwise to advance the timing?
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'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

Dammit Panic,

Now I can't remember, Will have to redo whole process this afternoon to see.
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

Just want to make sure,

When I start the car and it struggles, turning the whole distributor anti-clockwise will advance it??? and turning clockwise will retard it???
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by panic-mechanic »

Correct.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'09 Touareg 3l TDI
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

Perfect Power dealer. I do dyno tuning.
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

Then I think I found my problem.

Van die mans gaan seker vir my nou lag, but I'm pretty sure I was turning clock wise the whole freaken time, thinking that i was advancing.
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by panic-mechanic »

Well eventually it does advance basically by the time you went right around.
Happened before and that is why I was askIng about it.
Looking at the pics all seemed ok except you kept saying you have to turn the dissy all the way around.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'09 Touareg 3l TDI
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

Perfect Power dealer. I do dyno tuning.
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

Thanx to all you guys for assisting me. Still can't get it right. As soon as I'm turning distributor counter clock wise (to advance) the car dies and the further I turn, then it will simply not start. But if I turn it clock wise (retard) idling pick ups. So something is in sy moer in. Gatvol gestruggle, going t drive with it as is and take it to a mechanic end of month.

Thanx anyway guys
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by UDC »

Forget about the flywheel mark for now, set the camshaft on tdc mark and make sure the crank pulley mark aligns with the arrow on the lower cam belt cover.
If those two are aligned perfectly then this should be your true tdc mark, test using the screw driver method, once you happy with that make a mark on your flywheel using tippex etc, set your dissy to fire on its mark and to fire on no.1 plug.
From there start car, adjust your timing light to 6deg, then shine timing light on crank pulley mark and adjust dissy till it aligns with the arrow, the new mark you made on flywheel should also be matching but if it doesn't you rather use the crank pulley as a guide rather than the flywheel.
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

Thanx for the reply UDC,

The thing is the mark on the low camshaft cover that corresponds with that pulley, If the line up, the flywheel mark lines up as well, So I've tried using flywheel and the other mark. Same results.

After 5x attempts I gave up.

Let me explain exactly how I did it, perhaps you can point out if I made a mistake somewhere. Please note I've never done timing before, got all my info on this forum and google. But one can always learn new things.

What I did was:

1. When car was cool, putted it in neutral, turned pulley with a ratchet until flywheel and the ,mark on the pulley lined up, as they correspond with every rotation.

I used a screw driver to test that piston #1 is at TDC.

Then i removed distributor cap and checked the notch and rotor, i removed timing belt to line up rotor with mark, while having the belt of I turned camshaft to line up as well without moving the rotor. Then belt was put back. Turned again to see if nothing interferes.

Started car, swinging for long and eventually took but idles very rough and dies. Eventually kept idling. Setting the timing light at 3 or 6 even 12 degrees, still couldn't see notch on flywheel or pulley.

When I turn distributor counter clockwise to advance, idling drops and car dies, when turning further it does not want to start again.

Returned to normal position and started again, now turning distributor clockwise (which should be retard) car idles pick up, by almost turning halfway only then I start to see the line on flywheel and on pulley.

Then when trying to set timing still is a problem.

That's why I gave up lol, hope I can find a decent workshop or mechanic next week to sort this out.
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by UDC »

how are you setting the cam pulley mark, the mark on the inner side of the pulley must align with top/front of head.

after you put the belt on and rotated motor, does the front cam and crank mark line up on TDC and is the dissy on no.1 at that point.

also remove vacuum pipe from dissy when setting timing
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

Yes inner mark on camshaft pulley lines up with bottom of tappet cover, no vacuum advance, My distributor is the new type without it
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by UDC »

Cool, sounds like your TDC is correct then, at TDC car should start up and drive fine, will just feel abit sluggish.

Why where you tinkering with the timing in the first place, could be the carb or base plate is the culprit.
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

That's why I will send it to a mechanic next week, coz I don't know anymore. Distributor was out, was turned by "feeling" by previous owner. I just wanted everything standard. But matters are only worse now.

Keeping it like it is for now, next week take it to get sorted
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

Image
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

Hey guys just want to know something,

This will be my last attempt. What if the distributor is 180° out?

What will the symptons be, similiar? Also kinda makes senses that when I turn counter clockwise to advance, it's like cat is retarding. And can I test to be sure without harming anything? Also how does one do it? Simply just remove, swap 180° then reinstall and line timing marks up?
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by UDC »

if the front of the rotor is firing on no.1 then its correct, common problem for 180deg out is when the back of the rotor is firing no.1.

symptoms are car wont start and will back fire
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by RJ8V »

Okay then i guess it is installed correctly. Just don't understand what else can be the problem.

But even if I line up front of rotor with the mark, how do I know it's firing correctly? Since my symptons are like, can't see mark have to turn distributor almost halway before seeing mark and barely idles when started up. Should I leave distributor as it's currently installed?
EX: '02 AUDI A3 1.8 20V
EX: '81 Golf Rabbit Mk1, 2e 8V MP9. Not self-Build.
EX: '05 Ford Fiesta ST 2.0 Normal Aspirated
EX: '06 Volvo S60 D5
EX: '79 Golf MK1 2Door, 1.6i MP9. Not self-Build
EX: '05 Golf Chico 1.4 Carb - Self- Project

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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by Psycho8v »

This might not even help, and the more experienced guys can help me out here, but do you have the right length (amount of teeth) cam belt on there? I honestly don't know if that would cause this problem (as i've never done cam belt myself) but I just thought I would ask.
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Re: Timing on Golf mk1 still does not line up, please help

Post by -=sT3V3=- »

your issue sounds like you have something else wrong which is throwing you off, ie cam timing. i had similar issues when i first installed my ADY

maybe try these:

get a degree wheel and piston stop and confirm/remark tdc + 6BTDC on your crank pulley. You might have a dud pulley or incorrect mark. Dont forget to confirm the flywheel marks too!
use a ruler+steel plate to confirm tdc on your camshaft. I had a thread saved somewhere about it(lost it). You rest the plate on top of the 2 cylinder 1 lobes and measure the distance to the head. at TDC the front and back measurement are =. (do a long hard search on this forum and you will find it. probably a panic or torker post)

Once those 2 are timed 100% its just the dizzy position you would need, which is TDC the rotor is aimed @ cylinder 1. then start and timing light.
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