2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

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FrancoisMK2
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2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by FrancoisMK2 »

Good day.
Hoping someone could advise me.
I got a 1.4 tdi polo and had a few error lights.
The engine check light was on and the glow plug light flashed. Scanned for codes and got the following

Volkswagen Polo N9 P0102: MAF Sensor – Circuit Low

P0200 VOLKSWAGEN Code - Injector Circuit Open

P0183 VOLKSWAGEN Code - Fuel Temperature Sensor 'A' Circuit High Input

Cleaned the MAF and that code went away.

The fuel temp sender unit had a loose wire so i crimped a new plug onto it.

Then cleared the codes and nothing came back now its just got the intermittent miss and down on power.

Any advice on where to look would be helpful please.

Also when driving the car is dead and wants to stall at the slightest up hill start. Unless you rev it to about 2000rpm then it boosts and chirps the front wheels. So it either stalls or chirps the wheels. When driving as well foot to the floor below 2000rpm it doesn't accelerate, drop 1 gear down to bring the revs up then it boosts and picks up speed.

My 1st diesel car so a bit at a loss. I have built plenty petrol engines and fixed them so not completely incompetent πŸ˜… just dont know what to look for in a diesel engine.

It aint got no spark plugs or ht leads and coils to diagnose a miss and aint got no throttle body either 😢

Ps i also have a brand new spare 1.9tdi (76kw model i think) turbo from mr turbo.
Will it fit and work on the 1.4tdi to give it a little bit more vooma ?

Ps. also when starting up the car if it stood for a day or 2 it battles to start, fires up on 1 or 2 cylinders then after about 3 seconds the rest of the pistons wakes up and idles smoothly. After driving it starts up normally πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ
Glow plugs are all working so not sure...
As I lay rubber down the street.
I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin
and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride.
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by CLN1.6TDI FK »

Hi FrancoisMK2
Have checked the N75 valve?
Also check you glow plug controller.
Check your vacuum system thoroughly as well.
These three items cost me weeks of issue's on my tdi.
This included overboost from low rpm due to faulty N75.
My Rides.
2008 9N3 Cross Polo 1.9 TDi
143kw 175kw :cool: on wheels.
2013 6R1 Cross Polo 1.6 TDi 77kw

Previous:
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by J0NN0 »

FrancoisMK2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:06 pm
Ps i also have a brand new spare 1.9tdi (76kw model i think) turbo from mr turbo.
Will it fit and work on the 1.4tdi to give it a little bit more vooma ?
I would love to know if you get this right. have the same AMF motor in my lupo
Jonno

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Ashveer03
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by Ashveer03 »

U most likely have a faulty or leaking injector/s.
Not being able to start easily after sitting a few days or overnight is normally an injector leak issue.

These engines are also sensitive to timing, if the timing is off (synchro angle or torsion value) , they would be very lazy.

The 74kw turbo won't be a direct bolt on there as that's a 4cyl manifold and it's vnt operated VS the AMF is a 3cyl wastegate operated.

Anyways getting a turbo to fit is not the problem, the problem is getting the ecu to operate the vnt. I was going to try it but unfortunately the 1.4tdi that I have was in a bad accident - written off.

I was eventually going to swap a 1.9 motor into mine if the AMF engine had failed but unfortunately didn't get the chance to. Quite a simple conversion, all plug and play

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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by missioner »

Go to VW and buy the bloody injector harness that is inside the head.

PD engines are known for this fault.

The clue is on the fault code description. "Open circuit" tells me that the injector is losing contact electrically with the ECU.
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by missioner »

Ashveer03 wrote:U most likely have a faulty or leaking injector/s.
Not being able to start easily after sitting a few days or overnight is normally an injector leak issue.

These engines are also sensitive to timing, if the timing is off (synchro angle or torsion value) , they would be very lazy.

The 74kw turbo won't be a direct bolt on there as that's a 4cyl manifold and it's vnt operated VS the AMF is a 3cyl wastegate operated.

Anyways getting a turbo to fit is not the problem, the problem is getting the ecu to operate the vnt. I was going to try it but unfortunately the 1.4tdi that I have was in a bad accident - written off.

I was eventually going to swap a 1.9 motor into mine if the AMF engine had failed but unfortunately didn't get the chance to. Quite a simple conversion, all plug and play

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Agree here.

3 cylinder engine and 4 cylinder turbo are not plug and play.

I wouldn't even bother trying to warm up that steaming turd of an engine.

Leave it alone or do a swap as Ashveer suggested. The 1.9 is a million times better base to start from, hell why not swap in a petrol motor. Same amount of work.
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FrancoisMK2
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by FrancoisMK2 »

missioner wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:22 pm Go to VW and buy the bloody injector harness that is inside the head.

PD engines are known for this fault.

The clue is on the fault code description. "Open circuit" tells me that the injector is losing contact electrically with the ECU.
I took out the loom and tested it with a multimeter for continuity and all wires are working with same resistance as well. Then bent closed the electrical plugs that go onto the injector so they fit snug. Still no change.
I noticed the vacuum hose from the high pressure diesel pump going to the brake booster and T's off to the vacuum box thingy to be cracked and leaking as well as the vacuum hose going to the intake manifold (looks like vacuum operated diaphragm of some sort) so replaced those two lines.

Someone mentioned a N75 valve. For the life of me i cannot find it

Also i was referring to if the turbo core of the 1.9tdi can be swaped over or not or does the 1.9 have a larger turbo ?
As I lay rubber down the street.
I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin
and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride.
Ashveer03
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by Ashveer03 »

Incase u didn't understand the first time, the AMF engine has a wastegated turbo and the 1.9tdi has a vnt turbo.

They have 2 completely different designs of boost control. U cannot interchange them easily by just hardware modifications.
Swapping cores is not possible, even if u cut up a 1.9 manifold and make it fit somehow, the ecu won't be able to control the vnt mechanism because vnt systems are continuously controlled from idle and the wastegate turbo is not.

Most wastegated turbos including the AMF are controlled by positive pressure and not vacuum.
It will be completely shut from idle allowing the turbo to build boost, positive pressure will open the wastegate to maintain boost when the ecu requests that.

The n75 valve is the black box on the rhs strut tower. There are 3 solenoids built into that box, egr + anti shudder valve + n75.

Back to getting the car to run NORMAL, no matter what u do to the turbo it's not going to make the car any better to drive neither is it going to give u boost any sooner in the current situation.

This engine setup relies alot on proper fueling and timing for low rpm performance. If 1 Injector is not working correctly or if the timing if not set correctly it will run like total kak.

Less fuel or enough fuel at the incorrect time = bad performance.

U can try unplug the maf, drive the car around and see if it makes any difference, they sometimes do give some weird issues without throwing fault codes, I have had this issue once. Or u can log the maf values and see how many MG the maf is reading at spool up and at full boost.

On the other hand, when pd engines throw faults for injectors, it's almost always that code that's causing all the trouble. They are very sensitive injectors.

The codes u listed seems to be from a generic code reader, find somebody with vcds to scan the car and check live data via measuring blocks on group 004 block 4 (syncro/torsion value) and group 013 block 1, 2 and 3 (idle speed smooth running control). Group 018 and 023 also show injector values, can't remember what it's called but one of them show injector solenoid status. If any of them are stuck at 127 then that specific injector solenoid is a dud.

Do this preferably with the engine at operating temp and post back with results, maybe take a Pic of the data.



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FrancoisMK2
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by FrancoisMK2 »

Ashveer03 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:55 am Incase u didn't understand the first time, the AMF engine has a wastegated turbo and the 1.9tdi has a vnt turbo.

They have 2 completely different designs of boost control. U cannot interchange them easily by just hardware modifications.
Swapping cores is not possible, even if u cut up a 1.9 manifold and make it fit somehow, the ecu won't be able to control the vnt mechanism because vnt systems are continuously controlled from idle and the wastegate turbo is not.

Most wastegated turbos including the AMF are controlled by positive pressure and not vacuum.
It will be completely shut from idle allowing the turbo to build boost, positive pressure will open the wastegate to maintain boost when the ecu requests that.

The n75 valve is the black box on the rhs strut tower. There are 3 solenoids built into that box, egr + anti shudder valve + n75.

Back to getting the car to run NORMAL, no matter what u do to the turbo it's not going to make the car any better to drive neither is it going to give u boost any sooner in the current situation.

This engine setup relies alot on proper fueling and timing for low rpm performance. If 1 Injector is not working correctly or if the timing if not set correctly it will run like total kak.

Less fuel or enough fuel at the incorrect time = bad performance.

U can try unplug the maf, drive the car around and see if it makes any difference, they sometimes do give some weird issues without throwing fault codes, I have had this issue once. Or u can log the maf values and see how many MG the maf is reading at spool up and at full boost.

On the other hand, when pd engines throw faults for injectors, it's almost always that code that's causing all the trouble. They are very sensitive injectors.

The codes u listed seems to be from a generic code reader, find somebody with vcds to scan the car and check live data via measuring blocks on group 004 block 4 (syncro/torsion value) and group 013 block 1, 2 and 3 (idle speed smooth running control). Group 018 and 023 also show injector values, can't remember what it's called but one of them show injector solenoid status. If any of them are stuck at 127 then that specific injector solenoid is a dud.

Do this preferably with the engine at operating temp and post back with results, maybe take a Pic of the data.



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I fixed the vacuum lines from the intake to black box and from the high pressure diesel pump to the black box. The misfire went away and ran a whole lot better.

Drove the car up from durban to lydenburg and about 200km from my destination engine check light came on and it lost all its power. Could barely get it to 60kmh.

Scanner showed P0299 low boost condition or boost target not met. Turned ignition off then on again and it got some power back but was now only boosting between 3000rpm and 4000 rpm.
Had to really rev it to get going.

Get a feeling it might be a leaky boost pipe because boost is only getting up to 8 to 10 psi using the scanner between 3000 and 4000rpm.

Fuel consumption wasn't bad either... made it all the way on half a tank of diesel.
As I lay rubber down the street.
I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin
and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride.
Ashveer03
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by Ashveer03 »

Wow okay, good luck buddy.

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FrancoisMK2
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by FrancoisMK2 »

Thanks, it did give an injector code again and now wont start. Just swings over but wont fire up. Will pull the injector loom again and see what's going on. Then check for boost leaks and clean the intercooler out.

Where would i get a new injector loom and roughly how much are they ?

Also if it is an injector how would i know which one ? Is there a way to test them ?

Someone mentioned a different scanner above.
Anyone in the Lydenburg area who might have one ? Im on a farm here and pretty much stranded now lol weekends my friend is not working and he can drive me around to wherever i need to go to get the things to fix it
As I lay rubber down the street.
I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin
and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride.
FrancoisMK2
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Posts: 492
Registered for: 10 years 9 months
Car Make: Kia, VW
Car Model: Sportage, Golf 2 1.3 cl
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by FrancoisMK2 »

So the car battled to start , for some reason if it is parked uphill it will not start it just refuses. Pushed it to a level piece of ground and fired up after the 2nd attempt....

So eventually stripped it and removed all the intake and boost hoses, none of them are broken or cracked. So no idea why i got a low boost code, with all the pipes off i started the car and reved it up a bit and the turbo spools and blows a shed load of air πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

Also tested the glow plug harness with a multimeter and its not getting any voltage... glow plugs tested 0.8 ohm so guessing they good.

Think it might be the fuel pump in the tank ?

Also if someone can direct me to somewhere where i can see how to check the timing on the motor it would be really appreciated now that i have it partially stripped.

Many thanks
As I lay rubber down the street.
I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin
and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride.
FrancoisMK2
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Posts: 492
Registered for: 10 years 9 months
Car Make: Kia, VW
Car Model: Sportage, Golf 2 1.3 cl
Location: Durban North KZN

Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by FrancoisMK2 »

Ashveer03 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:55 am Incase u didn't understand the first time, the AMF engine has a wastegated turbo and the 1.9tdi has a vnt turbo.

They have 2 completely different designs of boost control. U cannot interchange them easily by just hardware modifications.
Swapping cores is not possible, even if u cut up a 1.9 manifold and make it fit somehow, the ecu won't be able to control the vnt mechanism because vnt systems are continuously controlled from idle and the wastegate turbo is not.

Most wastegated turbos including the AMF are controlled by positive pressure and not vacuum.
It will be completely shut from idle allowing the turbo to build boost, positive pressure will open the wastegate to maintain boost when the ecu requests that.

The n75 valve is the black box on the rhs strut tower. There are 3 solenoids built into that box, egr + anti shudder valve + n75.

Back to getting the car to run NORMAL, no matter what u do to the turbo it's not going to make the car any better to drive neither is it going to give u boost any sooner in the current situation.

This engine setup relies alot on proper fueling and timing for low rpm performance. If 1 Injector is not working correctly or if the timing if not set correctly it will run like total kak.

Less fuel or enough fuel at the incorrect time = bad performance.

U can try unplug the maf, drive the car around and see if it makes any difference, they sometimes do give some weird issues without throwing fault codes, I have had this issue once. Or u can log the maf values and see how many MG the maf is reading at spool up and at full boost.

On the other hand, when pd engines throw faults for injectors, it's almost always that code that's causing all the trouble. They are very sensitive injectors.

The codes u listed seems to be from a generic code reader, find somebody with vcds to scan the car and check live data via measuring blocks on group 004 block 4 (syncro/torsion value) and group 013 block 1, 2 and 3 (idle speed smooth running control). Group 018 and 023 also show injector values, can't remember what it's called but one of them show injector solenoid status. If any of them are stuck at 127 then that specific injector solenoid is a dud.

Do this preferably with the engine at operating temp and post back with results, maybe take a Pic of the data.



Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk
Just an update. Its a BNV motor with a VNT turbo. Found the P0299 error.
Not sure if this is what happened but the vanes were stuck (carbon build up, resulting in overboost that split the boost pipe) resulting in P0299 error (boost target not met) resulting in check engine light and limp mode.

Disassembled the turbo and cleaned the vanes. Put on a new boost pipe and running without a hiccup.

Took some googling but after i took the turbo off it was not a wastegated turbo so i searched as to what it could be. Ended up being the BNV engine 59kw 195nm model with VNT turbo setup. There are 4 different types of 1.4 tdi engines for vw/audi
As I lay rubber down the street.
I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin
and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride.
Ruwaidm
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by Ruwaidm »

@FrancoisMK2, glad you sorted bud. I have the same, 2004 Polo 1.4 TDI engine: AMF and not sure which type is mine and what type of turbo it has but mine has the same limp mode issue after the engine light comes on. I just switch off and back on and its got boost again but as you described, not all of it...just between 3000 and 4000 rpm and you have to really give it stick to get it going. I notice it happens often if im in a higher gear and put down the pedal. Have to always change down to make sure it doesnt go into limp.

She is just a run around for me so havent spent enough time diagnosing it or getting error codes read. Thinking about an engine swap as she's seen better days. Will only the 1.9 TDi engines from the same polo work as plug and play? Would something like the Golf 1.9TDI BKC engine work?
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FrancoisMK2
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Re: 2005 1.4 TDI intermittent misfire

Post by FrancoisMK2 »

Ruwaidm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:12 pm @FrancoisMK2, glad you sorted bud. I have the same, 2004 Polo 1.4 TDI engine: AMF and not sure which type is mine and what type of turbo it has but mine has the same limp mode issue after the engine light comes on. I just switch off and back on and its got boost again but as you described, not all of it...just between 3000 and 4000 rpm and you have to really give it stick to get it going. I notice it happens often if im in a higher gear and put down the pedal. Have to always change down to make sure it doesnt go into limp.

She is just a run around for me so havent spent enough time diagnosing it or getting error codes read. Thinking about an engine swap as she's seen better days. Will only the 1.9 TDi engines from the same polo work as plug and play? Would something like the Golf 1.9TDI BKC engine work?
Hi there. The AMF motor has a wastegated turbo.
Check the number 2 vacuum pipe on the front right strut tower going down to the turbo that its not leaking.

Another common problem i found while doing some research is the boost pipe that connects to the turbo and runs across the crank pully, over time they deform and scuff through on the crank pully. Very difficult to see unless you pull all the boost pipes off. Check all the vacuum lines on the strut tower black box for any cracks or leaks, then the boost pipe. If nothing there is broken then its more than likely your turbo core or wastegate not closing properly.

As for the engine swap i am unsure. Never done it before, i am sure some of the members here will be able to assist.
As I lay rubber down the street.
I pray for traction I can keep, but if I spin
and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride.
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