1.9tdi problems

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stig
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1.9tdi problems

Post by stig »

HI guys

I have been having hard starts on my tdi. Usually when the car is warm. In the mornings on cold start it fires up as soon as I start it. When warm or hot it Wil crank for longer and then fire up. When it does fire up it sometimes sounds like it is mis firing badly, when I Rev it a bit it normalises and then have no issue further.

No lights are on or faults found on vcds.

Unrelated to this, can the ignition be Re built internally? When the car has stood in the sun for a while it is really hard to get the sterring unlocked. The key also feels very worn loosr while in the ignition.

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Ashveer03
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by Ashveer03 »

Hot start issues generally caused by a faulty cam/crank sensor..
Unfortunately it can only be tested with an oscilloscope which not many people have. And no, it doesn't always throw a fault code

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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by MarshallGTi »

Ashveer03 wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:11 am Hot start issues generally caused by a faulty cam/crank sensor..
Unfortunately it can only be tested with an oscilloscope which not many people have. And no, it doesn't always throw a fault code

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When my crank sensor died, it didn't throw a code while driving and causing the motor to cut in and out, but once the motor died altogether only then did i get a code.

I could be wrong but could possibly be a fuel issue?
It is an ingenius solution to a problem that should have never existed in the 1st place...

Ibiza FR

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My mk2 16v
EX-DOHCTOR wrote: I'd make sure I understand the differences between fish and engine components before attempting any modifications on my motor vehicle as a start. :lol:
Psycho1400 wrote:It wasn't an oil leak, it was a horsepower sweat...
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by billionairebum »

Crank sensor.
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by panic-mechanic »

Ok so let's talk about that. if the crank sensor is at fault you can plug a vagcom/vcds in. Open the engine module and go to measuring blocks.
Find one (there are several) that displays the RPM value. If you crank the engine to start and it displays RPM around the 200-220 rpm range it ain't the crank sensor.
You don't need an oscilloscope to test that.
Some cars even displays the cam RPM but I have not played with the 1.9 polo enough to recall if it has that measuring block. if it does it will display half the engine rpm and that will also tell you if that sensor is OK.
the other possibility is always that nasty little thing called the engine temp sensor. They can fail with no fault code either but reading the wrong temp and making for a hard start. you can see it's value too in the blocks and look that it looks reasonable.
Does it always hard start when hot. Ie even if you have just driven it, kill and restart immediately or only if it stood a while?.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'09 Touareg 3l TDI
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

Perfect Power dealer. I do dyno tuning.
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by stig »

panic-mechanic wrote:Ok so let's talk about that. if the crank sensor is at fault you can plug a vagcom/vcds in. Open the engine module and go to measuring blocks.
Find one (there are several) that displays the RPM value. If you crank the engine to start and it displays RPM around the 200-220 rpm range it ain't the crank sensor.
You don't need an oscilloscope to test that.
Some cars even displays the cam RPM but I have not played with the 1.9 polo enough to recall if it has that measuring block. if it does it will display half the engine rpm and that will also tell you if that sensor is OK.
the other possibility is always that nasty little thing called the engine temp sensor. They can fail with no fault code either but reading the wrong temp and making for a hard start. you can see it's value too in the blocks and look that it looks reasonable.
Does it always hard start when hot. Ie even if you have just driven it, kill and restart immediately or only if it stood a while?.
Mostly when it stood a while

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H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by panic-mechanic »

So hard starting when it stood a while can even be leaking injectors.
SO it drips diesel in liquid form into the chamber. This has 2 results -
a mixture that does not want to ignitie until the liquid fuel has been expelled and an injector that is basically empty and has to get filled before it can spray.
But do the other checks first. IE see if the system is getting rpm when you crank it initially.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'09 Touareg 3l TDI
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

Perfect Power dealer. I do dyno tuning.
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by MarshallGTi »

Leaky injector would give some white smoke once it does start though wont it? Once it starts pushing the half combusted diesel through the exhaust?
It is an ingenius solution to a problem that should have never existed in the 1st place...

Ibiza FR

Image
Ex's:
ShoeBox
(o\!/o)
My mk2 16v
EX-DOHCTOR wrote: I'd make sure I understand the differences between fish and engine components before attempting any modifications on my motor vehicle as a start. :lol:
Psycho1400 wrote:It wasn't an oil leak, it was a horsepower sweat...
Ashveer03
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by Ashveer03 »

Just a thought panic, since the sensor is not completely dead it would probably be difficult to notice numbers on a scantool since the refresh rate is not quick enough..?

Leaky Injectors should give off some white smoke when started.. And the engine would run rough from all the excess fuel in the cylinder until it clears out.

A quick way of telling if injector seals are leaking, add a piece clear hose on the fuel return line inbetween the tandem pump and fuel filter, if there are continuous air bubbles in there then it's time to change seals.

Vcds block 13 might give u a clue as to which cylinders are misbehaving..

But since the car can stand the whole night and start up fine the next morning, makes it difficult to believe that it's a fueling issue as fueling issues most likely occur when the car is parked off overnight, well from what Iv seen atleast..

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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by stig »

Thanks for all the input guys, no white smoke. I think ill start with checking cam sensor and work from there. Will update when done

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The Ride:

'09 Polo 1.9 TDi 96KW HighLine
Mods: Straight-flow FMIC ,Stainless boost piping, RKmotion tuned, 17" Audi A5 Reps, Cobra coilovers, SMF cutch kit
H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by panic-mechanic »

I'm not talking leaky injector seal. I am talking leaky injector pintle - different leak. But if the seals in the head is leaking then the oil will get contaminated.
in vcds if you press the turbo button it ups the refresh rate and it will clearly show you a faulty crank sensor.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'09 Touareg 3l TDI
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

Perfect Power dealer. I do dyno tuning.
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by billionairebum »

stig wrote: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:31 pm Thanks for all the input guys, no white smoke. I think ill start with checking cam sensor and work from there. Will update when done

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Do a DIY with pics :)
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by MarshallGTi »

Sits in here:

Image
Image
It is an ingenius solution to a problem that should have never existed in the 1st place...

Ibiza FR

Image
Ex's:
ShoeBox
(o\!/o)
My mk2 16v
EX-DOHCTOR wrote: I'd make sure I understand the differences between fish and engine components before attempting any modifications on my motor vehicle as a start. :lol:
Psycho1400 wrote:It wasn't an oil leak, it was a horsepower sweat...
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stig
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by stig »

MarshallGTi wrote:Sits in here:

Image
Image
Thats crank right? Cam is behind cambelt next to rop pulley?

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The Ride:

'09 Polo 1.9 TDi 96KW HighLine
Mods: Straight-flow FMIC ,Stainless boost piping, RKmotion tuned, 17" Audi A5 Reps, Cobra coilovers, SMF cutch kit
H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

Image
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panic-mechanic
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by panic-mechanic »

yes
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'09 Touareg 3l TDI
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

Perfect Power dealer. I do dyno tuning.
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stig
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by stig »

Ordered cam sensor from lindsay saker. r1983.

I see about 300rpm when it cranks longer than normal so hopefully the cam sensor solves it

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The Ride:

'09 Polo 1.9 TDi 96KW HighLine
Mods: Straight-flow FMIC ,Stainless boost piping, RKmotion tuned, 17" Audi A5 Reps, Cobra coilovers, SMF cutch kit
H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

Image
Ashveer03
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by Ashveer03 »

U see that as crank or cam rpm?

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stig
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by stig »

Ashveer03 wrote:U see that as crank or cam rpm?

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Just on the tach. Dont have access to vcds at this time

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The Ride:

'09 Polo 1.9 TDi 96KW HighLine
Mods: Straight-flow FMIC ,Stainless boost piping, RKmotion tuned, 17" Audi A5 Reps, Cobra coilovers, SMF cutch kit
H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

Image
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stig
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by stig »

Replaced cam position sensor using guide on the forum made by another member. Might just be placebo affect but car seems to idle smoother and have not had the long crank since.

Next item for replacement would be the ignition barrel or assembly as it is very hard to get my steering wheel to unlock when car has stood in the sun. Scared I'm going to break the only key I have

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The Ride:

'09 Polo 1.9 TDi 96KW HighLine
Mods: Straight-flow FMIC ,Stainless boost piping, RKmotion tuned, 17" Audi A5 Reps, Cobra coilovers, SMF cutch kit
H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

Image
billionairebum
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Re: 1.9tdi problems

Post by billionairebum »

Excellent.
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