MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

VAG Fan
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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by VAG Fan » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:06 pm

I'm not clear which symptoms you experienced on the old engine / old DMF, and which ones on the replacement engine / new DMF.

My brand-new clutch also has a shudder if I reverse very gently. Irritating and disappointing as hell, but that's the way it is. But if a reverse shudder is the only symptom you have, then that in itself wouldn't be enough reason to replace a dmf/clutch, in my opinion.
Mark R.
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1992 Audi 500 SE, type C4, AAR, 335k (2001-current)
1990 VW Fox, type 16, HM, 245k (2005-current)
2004 VW Golf, type 1J, AHF, 231k (2016-current)
Previous:
1978 Audi 100 GLS 5E, type 43, WC (1991-92)
1983 VW Golf GTS, type 17, FR (1992-2005 but still in the family)
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Clev
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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by Clev » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:26 pm

VAG Fan wrote:I'm not clear which symptoms you experienced on the old engine / old DMF, and which ones on the replacement engine / new DMF.

My brand-new clutch also has a shudder if I reverse very gently. Irritating and disappointing as hell, but that's the way it is. But if a reverse shudder is the only symptom you have, then that in itself wouldn't be enough reason to replace a dmf/clutch, in my opinion.
Which is why Im breaking my head about it. Clearly there are gears and selection isnt the problem. Its when the clutch releases. The old engines clutch wasnt really defective. Just the "boop" sound when I change gears. But all my gears were indeed working. The car used to shudder at idle when I depressed the clutch, the shudder went away which is symptomatic of a faulty release bearing right? When the new engine went in, all the probs went away. The first 3weeks was heavenly. Just the cat was a bit clogged with dirt but didnt restrict driving

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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by VAG Fan » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:29 pm

OK, I'll try again. When the new engine went in, all the problems went away. So where's the problem now?
Mark R.
- - - - - - - - - -
1992 Audi 500 SE, type C4, AAR, 335k (2001-current)
1990 VW Fox, type 16, HM, 245k (2005-current)
2004 VW Golf, type 1J, AHF, 231k (2016-current)
Previous:
1978 Audi 100 GLS 5E, type 43, WC (1991-92)
1983 VW Golf GTS, type 17, FR (1992-2005 but still in the family)
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Clev
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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by Clev » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:38 pm

VAG Fan wrote:OK, I'll try again. When the new engine went in, all the problems went away. So where's the problem now?
Just the reverse gear and the injection pump. Injection pump because it smokes (white smoke) heavily upon startup.

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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by Clev » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:46 am

Clev wrote:
VAG Fan wrote:OK, I'll try again. When the new engine went in, all the problems went away. So where's the problem now?
Just the reverse gear and the injection pump. Injection pump because it smokes (white smoke) heavily upon startup.

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So the white smoke is my only problem now. Turns out the transmission was loose. Only two bolts keeping it all together. Other guy I work with brought in some help and just aligned the gearbox and tightened a few bolts, added about two more and problem solved. Says I must return the new release bearing I bought 3days ago. Thanks for your input though

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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by panic-mechanic » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:22 am

A clutch runs the same way wheteher you reverse or not. So if it shudders in reverse but not in any of the forward gears we should look at mounts rather than the clutch.
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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by VAG Fan » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:43 am

panic-mechanic wrote:A clutch runs the same way wheteher you reverse or not. So if it shudders in reverse but not in any of the forward gears we should look at mounts rather than the clutch.
I have, in fact, also picked up a slight shudder when gently maneuvering forward, e.g. slight uphill in a highway traffic jam that moves too slowly for 1st gear idle. But I agree about the mounts, because as soon as I load them with a bit more torque, the clutch pulls absolutely smoothly.

[Edit: I just find it very weird that the old clutch, battered as it was, never shuddered the least bit. Why would a new clutch suddenly show up worn mountings?]
Mark R.
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1992 Audi 500 SE, type C4, AAR, 335k (2001-current)
1990 VW Fox, type 16, HM, 245k (2005-current)
2004 VW Golf, type 1J, AHF, 231k (2016-current)
Previous:
1978 Audi 100 GLS 5E, type 43, WC (1991-92)
1983 VW Golf GTS, type 17, FR (1992-2005 but still in the family)
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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by panic-mechanic » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:58 am

The springs in the dmf was pretty kaput. So they compressed a lot easier. The new dmf probably resists that and bites a bit harder so that might now show up a mount. And it's probably the dogbone.
These clutches come pre- assembled. You literally undo the 6 bolts on the crank and redo the 6 bolts. So there is not in any way that it could be installed wrong in any case.
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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by VAG Fan » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:27 am

Understood (and not trying to run your work down).
Mark R.
- - - - - - - - - -
1992 Audi 500 SE, type C4, AAR, 335k (2001-current)
1990 VW Fox, type 16, HM, 245k (2005-current)
2004 VW Golf, type 1J, AHF, 231k (2016-current)
Previous:
1978 Audi 100 GLS 5E, type 43, WC (1991-92)
1983 VW Golf GTS, type 17, FR (1992-2005 but still in the family)
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Clev
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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by Clev » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:04 pm

VAG Fan wrote:Understood (and not trying to run your work down).
The mounts are new. Clutch is in great condition. Just poor workmanship when assembling the new engine back together with the gearbox. Ill be mindful to check everything next time. Besides, I have exposure to an assembling environment. I build trucks for a living. I still hear the flapping noise from the pump side though. I dont know if setting the injection quantity is going to take it away though. Still seems like its overfuelling even though mechanical pump timing was done

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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by panic-mechanic » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:11 pm

We are having cross communication here. But anyway clev - when you say mechanical pump timing was done - did you ever plug it into vcds and checked the actual pump timing. is that what you mean. If not then you can be off by a huge margin. Just mechanical puts you in ball park to start the car - form there you have to set it right by moving it on the pump by the smallest amounts while consulting the timing function in vcds.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by Clev » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:44 pm

panic-mechanic wrote:We are having cross communication here. But anyway clev - when you say mechanical pump timing was done - did you ever plug it into vcds and checked the actual pump timing. is that what you mean. If not then you can be off by a huge margin. Just mechanical puts you in ball park to start the car - form there you have to set it right by moving it on the pump by the smallest amounts while consulting the timing function in vcds.
Thanks for the response. I havent plugged it into vcds. Sadly, I have the software v17.8 but no cable. Those things dont come cheap here. Just nedd the cable then Im home free to do whatever it needs.

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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by panic-mechanic » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:41 pm

ok so trust me - you need to check it that way. Without it you can be WAY off even if you think it is mechanically perfect.
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'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'07 Audi A4 2l TDI
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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by Clev » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:58 pm

panic-mechanic wrote:ok so trust me - you need to check it that way. Without it you can be WAY off even if you think it is mechanically perfect.
I had the engine bay open after I started it up. I let it idle for a few mins then turned it off. There was a ticking sound coming from the pump after I turned the engine off. Gets fainter as it continues then goes away after a minute. Im guessing the pump injection quantity needs to be set with the vcds. Any ideas where to get the cable? Im only going to use it once. Getting rid of this tdi now.

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Re: MK4 1.9 TDI dual mass flywheel: what's normal, what's not?

Post by panic-mechanic » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:26 am

Well if you selling it then why bother. Just sell it.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'07 Audi S6 V10 - beast !!!!!
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'07 Audi A4 2l TDI
'95 Audi 90 coupe quattro
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

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