Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by Kavi4GP »

Use the best fuel available , 50ppm is actually less than 50 , Shell avg about 45ppm , SASOL 10 ppm is avg about 7ppm, technically SASOL diesel is 0ppm but agreements mean they have to mix their product , and the guys are correct stick to the given intervals .


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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by neighbourhood terror »

I normally use 50ppm and mostly BP since there's one on my way to and from work, but I filled up with SASOL 10ppm on Monday. Touran is usually a bit smokey (REVO) but on this 10ppm stuff it's like a smog machine :twisted:

Can't say I've noticed any other real difference between the two fuels
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by Wave »

Apparently Sasol's diesel (made from coal) is 0PPM, they buy in higher PPM diesel to make up 10PPM

My wife's 6R Cross Polo TDI gets best consumption on 10PPM, as soon as she fills up with 50PPM the mileage drops on that tank.

There is no need to add 2 stroke oil to diesel- read here:

http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2strokeoilindiesel.php

and a test done by Sasol

http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2-stroke-oi ... -study.php

If you get water contamination in fuel (petrol or diesel) use this:

https://youtu.be/crhbWEpyT0k
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by 4ePikanini »

Wave wrote:Apparently Sasol's diesel (made from coal) is 0PPM, they buy in higher PPM diesel to make up 10PPM

My wife's 6R Cross Polo TDI gets best consumption on 10PPM, as soon as she fills up with 50PPM the mileage drops on that tank.

There is no need to add 2 stroke oil to diesel- read here:

http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2strokeoilindiesel.php

and a test done by Sasol

http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2-stroke-oi ... -study.php

If you get water contamination in fuel (petrol or diesel) use this:

https://youtu.be/crhbWEpyT0k
Really?

You believe articles written by people who would be negatively affected if the point is proven?

The latest anecdotal.... SOURCE http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/sho ... p?t=220306
Hi Guys

Sorry to barge in on your thread Slabbies, but I'd rather post here than start a new thread on the same subject.

I have been getting the engine system fault indicator veeeeery intermittently, but the last couple of days it started coming on regularly (as in a couple of times an hour). My trusty IIDTool tells me it's a P132B faultand thanks to the info I got from DiscoDeon, I now know it points to the turbo vane actuator.
  1. Free'd up the linkage with some Q20.
  2. First part of the testdrive went fine until the fault reapeared
  3. Only appears when decellerating to stop
  4. When switching on and off the car, the arm moves freely towards me but gets stuck immediately on the way back
  5. A very slight nudge almost makes it fall to the other side
  6. it then come back up smoothly and gets stuck again
  7. Looking at a heap of pictures last night, my logic tells me that the vane mechanism inside the turbo must be sticky
QUESTION: Will 2SO solve this or is it too late?
followed later by this
Just a quick update. I am sitting on 250km post 2SO addition. The fault seems to be occurring less frequently and has not appeared since Saturday morning.
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by panic-mechanic »

Wife's Audi A4 3l tdi just LOVES the 10 ppm. Make a whole lot more torque.
But then again it's a different type of injection.
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by Wave »

The companies that make diesel say don't add 2 stroke oil
The companies that make vehicles say don't add 2 stroke oil
The companies that make 2 stroke oil say don't add 2 stroke oil

There is finally one official test that says don't use 2 stroke oil and I must rather believe the general public that say I must?

Everyone to their own, its your vehicle of course, but I will rather stay away from adding 2 stroke oil to a 4 stroke engine.
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by 4ePikanini »

Wave wrote:The companies that make diesel say don't add 2 stroke oil
The companies that make vehicles say don't add 2 stroke oil
The companies that make 2 stroke oil say don't add 2 stroke oil

There is finally one official test that says don't use 2 stroke oil and I must rather believe the general public that say I must?

Everyone to their own, its your vehicle of course, but I will rather stay away from adding 2 stroke oil to a 4 stroke engine.
So, in your list above, how many of them say the same about NF Octane Booster.

Ever heard of legislation? 2SO ups the sulpher content from about 50ppm to 75ppm in a 200:1 ratio. No company bound by legislation will condone that.

2SO per definition is designed to lubricate, burn clean and remove carbon deposits.

There are thousands of good reports on the use thereof. More than any test group could compile. How many bad stories have you heard by the use of 2SO. I have many unbiased reports (who have nothing to gain or lose, just like me) to back up my claims. Where's yours?
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by Wave »

I'm not going to get into a mud fight.

Everyone to their own. NF has done independent lab testing and its on our website. We're not trying to hide anything. So I'm not sure what you're trying to imply.

I'd sooner trust a lab test.
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by MeanTdi »

Wave wrote:The companies that make diesel say don't add 2 stroke oil
The companies that make vehicles say don't add 2 stroke oil
The companies that make 2 stroke oil say don't add 2 stroke oil

There is finally one official test that says don't use 2 stroke oil and I must rather believe the general public that say I must?

Everyone to their own, its your vehicle of course, but I will rather stay away from adding 2 stroke oil to a 4 stroke engine.
I agree with you.

http://www.vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=145939
MeanTdi wrote:My honest opinion:

Option 1 - Never use 2SO. Injectors will remain within -0.15 to 0.15.

Option 2 - Use 2SO. Injectors will remain within -0.15 to 0.15. However, you take a risk by using additives which VW and all petroleum companies say you should not.

p.s. not sure of the mileage but I would suspect well over 150 000klms as they are 2006/2007 models (7 to 8 years old).
MeanTdi wrote:http://www.vwclub.co.za/phpbb3/viewtopi ... &p=1361823
MeanTdi wrote:
Neuk wrote:.. I wonder about the 2-stroke oil/fuel that so many swear by...
"Fuel Blending

This section presents the effects of blending fuels with used and new lube oil, other fuels, and with gasoline, gasohol, or alcohol. Biodiesel fuel blends are discussed in a separate section of this service bulletin.
There are two different types of fuel blending processes referred to in this section. The first is the blending of used engine lubricating oil to reduce fuel costs and to aid in disposing of used engine oil. This section also discusses the blending of fuel and engine oil in on-highway applications. The second is the blending of heavier fuels with lighter fuels to lower the wax content, cloud point, and pour point, and thus improve cold weather operation. In addition, the effects and hazards of mixing alcohol with diesel fuel are discussed.

Blending Fuel and Lubricating Oil for On-Highway Applications

Never blend more than 5 percent used lubricating oil with the fuel. Do not blend other used oils with fuel, such as transmission fluid, gear case oil, and so forth. Additional oil blending restrictions are outlined in this section....

...engines required to use ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel (15 ppm sulfur maximum) are not allowed to blend used lubricating oil with diesel.

...high Horsepower engines (displacements of 18L or larger) equipped with high pressure common rail fuel systems are allowed to blend used lubricating oil with diesel fuel up to a maximum volume-concentration of 0.5 percent using the Centinel™ system, regardless of the presence of an exhaust aftertreatment system...

The blending of new lubricating oil to raise viscosity is also permissible, and is subject to the same restrictions previously mentioned. This helps to increase the viscosity of lighter fuels to acceptable levels...

Blending Fuel with Gasoline, Gasohol, and Alcohol

WARNING
Do not mix gasoline, alcohol, or gasohol with diesel fuel. This mixture can cause an explosion.

WARNING
Under no circumstances must gasoline or alcohol be used to dilute diesel fuel. This practice creates an extreme fire hazard and under certain circumstances an explosive hazard. Gasoline dilution is not an effective way to lower cloud point (20 volume-percent gasoline only lowers cloud point 4°C [7°F] and it lowers the fuel viscosity, cetane number, and flash-point). Alcohol dilution will increase the cloud point.
Alcohol is considered a renewable energy source. Some suppliers integrate up to 15 percent alcohol in diesel fuel to form oxy-diesel or e-diesel. While the use of special additives addresses some of the problems with alcohol blending in diesel fuel, Cummins Inc. recommends against the use of such blends due to safety reasons. This kind of fuel is considered experimental and is not covered by warranty."


So it seems that adding oil is ok... but adding petrol is not...
I still would not do it...
But each to their own....
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by 4ePikanini »

Wave wrote:I'm not going to get into a mud fight.

Everyone to their own. NF has done independent lab testing and its on our website. We're not trying to hide anything. So I'm not sure what you're trying to imply.

I'd sooner trust a lab test.
I'm not hiding or implying anything. Look at those tests. They are either someone's opinion or the test is marginal. One engine and no mention of other engines used.

The test they did clearly showed that 2SO does indeed add lubricity.

It never ever addresses the fact that it burns away carbon deposits. It also overdosed the zinc to make the deposits they speak of.

NF may be a good product but please don't shoot down 2SO based on some silly tests. I have nothing invested in 2SO. I have used it myself for may many years and have seen what it does.

Use it or not. It's up to you but don't shoot my post down with no backing. Argue the point.
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by JonaDTD »

1. Use 500PPM
2. Oil change every 5000 km
3. Make power
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by Wave »

JonaDTD wrote:1. Use 500PPM
2. Oil change every 5000 km
3. Make power
Fair point(s)... Unless you drive a vehicle with a DPF where you can run max 50PPM...
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by 4ePikanini »

as an added

Here is my Touareg R5's intake at 292'000km
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And here is a Touareg R5's intake that doesn't use 2SO
Image

It might be something, it might be nothing. I'm not trying to explain anything, just putting it out there so you can have all the info to make your OWN decision.
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by DieterMK5 »

i filled up this morning with v power 50 ppm instead of 10ppm, will update if there is any consumption changes worth noting.
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by Barney »

BlackoutVXD wrote:Ive only ever used the Shell V Power 50ppm diesel and serviced the car as per the book

Every now and then I use either NF 3 in 1 cleaner on half a tank :oops: or the NF Diesel Boost on a full tank

Off topic though but my Astra pulls a lot harder when using the NF 3 in 1 on half a tank, anyone else experienced this?
my car hates the 3 in 1 stuff... flip motor was lump and was not smooth going through revs.. :crazy: power was way down... car hated it
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by Dcal »

500ppm is worse for your engine compared to 50ppm.
H2SO4 (sulphuric acid is corrosive) gets formed easier with higher sulfur content fuel.
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by Tman21 »

Ok so time for me to crack this fucker wide open and welcome the debate to 2018 :hi:

Ive made a few comments on others post regarding getting a new set of wheels but Ive paid a substantial holding deposit and my finance is pre-approved on a 2011 Touareg 3.0 V6TDI hooray. I have been reading forums and posts and follow links to studies and spent about 12-15hrs this weekend reading up on fuel and yes even the 2SO debate.

My question for now seeing as I dont have the vehicle yet does anyone know what VW's recommended allowance fo fuel is for the Toureg? Noticed that people mentioned the Amarok can run on 500ppm. I know its a completely different motor however some common principles between the 2 platforms and VW still says 500ppm is ok? Can anyone confirm this?

And then @panic if you are reading this what do you chuck in the V10?
And if you commented on this in 2015 please give me your findings/standing on the debate currently.

Common misconception I see is that people think sulfer gives lubricity but its more to the effect of the filtration process removes the lubricity in the Diesel. Also we produce world class diesel in SA the problem is contamination and handling between plant and pump. :

"Sulphur is not a lubricant, it is a corrosive agent instead. What happens is that, when suplhur is taken out of oil, the oil loses some lubricity. Energy companies compensate by adding the right additives in the correct ratios, so no need for over-dosing your vehicle with additives.:

So it boils down to: does your motor manufacturer allow to run up to 500ppm as the main down side here is the oil contamination which is sorted by sticking to the service intervals and (forgive my explenation) "sticky injectors" as the injection technology is next level with really small injection measurements.

Also lots of people claim better consumption and sometimes power on the "cheaper" diesel and more often than not people think its money making tree hugging scheme.

Thanks for reading Sooters!
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by panic-mechanic »

I have not commented neither will I. There are way more supposed diesel experts here and I do nothing of any of the stuff they recommend so will just keep quiet.
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by Tman21 »

Haha I completely understand! Do you know what the recommendation is for the 176kw V6 or do you know where I can download a owners/service manual for one?

Im buying a vehicle in CPT and will only get it in around 2 weeks. When i drive it back from CPT it will only be around 7k km untill you service it.

I have put in plenty hours of reading and a manufacturer confirmed my conclusion in a service bulletin on the subject. And I will also be stickin to what manufacturer recommends!
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by panic-mechanic »

The manufacturer recommends the lowest sulphur available with 15k intervals using the correct oil.
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by 4ePikanini »

panic-mechanic wrote:The manufacturer recommends the lowest sulphur available with 15k intervals using the correct oil.
The manufacturer is bound by legislation.

They also recommend you keep the EGR and CATs and DPF.

But yes, I know you lost the can opener ;)
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by Tman21 »

Hahaha, recently joined 4x4 forum cos of my Touareg reading and thought id introduce myself in the 2SO thread :) but thought it best if I pop in once I get my new wheels!

Im sticking to what manufacturers prescribe fuel wise. If you read up on the tolerances and the microns of modern day injectors I wouldn’t **** around with those however having a scientific background I can totally understand why people do what they do but im kinda a white coat desciple!

(Kinda contradictive I know seeing that the V6TDI was one of the models in the emissions scandal but couldn’t have been that bad if the fix was a map)
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by panic-mechanic »

I don't do any kind of additives and that includes 2so and I have never had an engine failure because I did not add some additive.
That to me means they don't need it.
Just to check the oterh day I undid the arm on my v6 turbo to check the movement on the vanes. Totally no resistance - so at 225k km it has not clogged up.
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by Tman21 »

Thats what clean diesel and maintenance will give you.

I have a really good artikel from a prof at Tukkies explaining why engines fail.

2 things that stood out for me was:

1. The pressure and precision that goes along with a modern day HPFP and injector

2. That bad fuel (read contaminated and watered / parrafined ) can destroy an engine within minutes.

The Toureg has 15k km service intervals and i think if all filters and engine oil gets replaced it should last like intended! The SA market has a completely different perception regarding high mileage compared to the states and Europe and they often see 300k + miles without any major breakdowns when their vehicles are maintained.

Our fuel in SA is of regulated standards however theft, corruption and cost cutting prohibits us from getting the same quality at the forecourt.

Another thing I will be keeping in mind is reputable high volume filling stations (i know looks can be deceiving) but ill be going for the better maintained filling station from now on!

Cant wait to get my new wheels!
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Re: Sasol 10ppm vs Shell V Power 50ppm

Post by cmpelser »

Hi, I believe that from June/July 2018 there will be no more 500ppm available.
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