Educate me about paint quality

[mueneni12]

So I want to do a bit of touch up/respray for my car. I have a guy that I am quite happy with his workmanship but I am not sure he can get the right paint (tornado red). I have asked around from different vendors and the prices vary greatly, from R960 - R3300 for the same quantity (quality is what i am not sure about here). The best quote I got was from Tony paints in Booysens -anyone dealt with them before?
How do I tell whether the paint is good quality? which place must I look at?

[Saiendra]

Brand of paint,

Yes: Standox, Kapci, Spies Hecker, PPG.

Stay away from no name brands & Luxor

[Kyle]

make sure you get good quality clear coat too, no use getting the best base coat and cheapie clear.

[mueneni12]

Thanks. from what I gather, these guys have to do the mixing for me, how do I control what brand they use?

[Kyle]

Thanks. from what I gather, these guys have to do the mixing for me, how do I control what brand they use?

It will depend on what brand the paint shop uses... Most of them carry a specific brand that they mix with.

[Saiendra]

I would say clear coat quality is more important than base quality.

[Saiendra]

I see that you are based in Sandton,

SAAS Southern African Automotive Supplies  
Auto Parts Store
Address: Cnr Louis Botha and, Arkwright Ave, Johannesburg, 2192
Phone: 011 440 0984

They retail Plascon, Roberlo, Standox...

Pick you best bet

[mueneni12]

I see that you are based in Sandton,

SAAS Southern African Automotive Supplies  
Auto Parts Store
Address: Cnr Louis Botha and, Arkwright Ave, Johannesburg, 2192
Phone: 011 440 0984

They retail Plascon, Roberlo, Standox...

Pick you best bet

Thanks. they are a stone throw away.

[mueneni12]

make sure you get good quality clear coat too, no use getting the best base coat and cheapie clear.

Since I am just repainting the car as I feel the paint has faded a bit, is it necessary to get base coat?

[lawrence]

I cannot comment on the actual type of paint used but would like to at least offer some food for thought.

Whilst I am sure the physical characteristics of the actual brand used will have some effect on the overall quality of the job, don't underestimate the impact the following can have on the final outcome:

1. The quality of the prep work done before painting
2. The ability of the painter to match existing surface texture (orange peel) if a partial repaint, or his ability to leave minimal texture (which will increase overall clarity)
3. No matter how well 1+2 above are executed, the final appearance of the paint job is going to come down to the dude doing the cutting and polishing - if he fails to remove sanding marks, or leaves behind buffer trails, or lands up over-polishing certain areas and removes too much paint, you are ultimately going to be left with a crap looking car.

Since I am just repainting the car as I feel the paint has faded a bit, is it necessary to get base coat?

Is the original paint base/clear or is it single stage only (i.e. no clear). If it is a base/clear and you have faded color, then the fading has most likely occurred in the base coat and adding new clear on top won't fix the faded base coat, so a full repaint will be necessary. There is a possibility that the clear coat has oxidised a bit (if so this can be polished off) but in all likelihood it is simply just full of scratches (the fine swirl type) and this is what makes it appear faded - its kind of like looking through those glass windows we all have in our bathrooms where you cannot see clearly through them....so by correcting the paint (having it polished by a trusted detailer) could restore the clarity to the clear coat, and make your base coat appear its original color again.

Until you try this, you won't know what the potential outcome could be.

If it is single stage paint, then the fading you are seeing may simply be due to oxidation, which can be removed again through polishing the paint.

My last comment is that I have detailed many many cars that have been on the receiving end of a crap paint job and although I get that everyone has their own budget constraints, you really do get what you pay for, and so don't expect high quality work for peanuts. If you are going to go through all the effort of having the car repainted, get it done right.

It may be worth your while to check out some of the work in the detailing section to see what is possible in terms of restoring faded paint before you dive into a repaint.

[ALRoN73]

Brand of paint,

Yes: Standox, Kapci, Spies Hecker, PPG.

Stay away from no name brands & Luxor

This

[THANAS]

Brand of paint,

Yes: Standox, Kapci, Spies Hecker, PPG, Spraymate.

Stay away from no name brands & Luxor

This

FTFY

[mueneni12]

I cannot comment on the actual type of paint used but would like to at least offer some food for thought.

Whilst I am sure the physical characteristics of the actual brand used will have some effect on the overall quality of the job, don't underestimate the impact the following can have on the final outcome:

1. The quality of the prep work done before painting
2. The ability of the painter to match existing surface texture (orange peel) if a partial repaint, or his ability to leave minimal texture (which will increase overall clarity)
3. No matter how well 1+2 above are executed, the final appearance of the paint job is going to come down to the dude doing the cutting and polishing - if he fails to remove sanding marks, or leaves behind buffer trails, or lands up over-polishing certain areas and removes too much paint, you are ultimately going to be left with a crap looking car.

Since I am just repainting the car as I feel the paint has faded a bit, is it necessary to get base coat?

Is the original paint base/clear or is it single stage only (i.e. no clear). If it is a base/clear and you have faded color, then the fading has most likely occurred in the base coat and adding new clear on top won't fix the faded base coat, so a full repaint will be necessary. There is a possibility that the clear coat has oxidised a bit (if so this can be polished off) but in all likelihood it is simply just full of scratches (the fine swirl type) and this is what makes it appear faded - its kind of like looking through those glass windows we all have in our bathrooms where you cannot see clearly through them....so by correcting the paint (having it polished by a trusted detailer) could restore the clarity to the clear coat, and make your base coat appear its original color again.

Until you try this, you won't know what the potential outcome could be.

If it is single stage paint, then the fading you are seeing may simply be due to oxidation, which can be removed again through polishing the paint.

My last comment is that I have detailed many many cars that have been on the receiving end of a crap paint job and although I get that everyone has their own budget constraints, you really do get what you pay for, and so don't expect high quality work for peanuts. If you are going to go through all the effort of having the car repainted, get it done right.

It may be worth your while to check out some of the work in the detailing section to see what is possible in terms of restoring faded paint before you dive into a repaint.

Thanks bud, Will look into this. Restoration might be the way to go, but I think the bonnet and bumper definitely need painting.

[Saiendra]

Post some pics, let us take a stab.

[Saiendra]

Brand of paint,

Yes: Standox, Kapci, Spies Hecker, PPG, Spraymate.

Stay away from no name brands & Luxor

This

FTFY

Spray can your body panels?

[lawrence]

Brand of paint,

Yes: Standox, Kapci, Spies Hecker, PPG, Spraymate.

Stay away from no name brands & Luxor

This

FTFY

Spray can your body panels?

Never mind spray with a rattle can.... how about painting your Merc with a roller brush

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/aut ... and-s.html

Guess it kinds ties into what I was trying to say earlier.... the work done after the paint has been laid down can have a massive effect on the outcome.... here is someone who roller painted that car but did the cutting and polishing properly....and it came out looking good.... and likewise you could have the paint laid down by the best painter on earth in a proper spray booth, only to be hacked up by the polishing guy...

[Saiendra]

well as long as you get the paint flat I guess it doesn't matter how

[SayedMK1]

I use Duxone , PPG , and HB Body , they acrylic clear is the way to go Dont use Luxor ive found it to be a 2nd grade paint . At the end of the day you get what you pay for so if you can spend a few rands more and it will show in the end result .

[mueneni12]

I use Duxone , PPG , and HB Body , they acrylic clear is the way to go Dont use Luxor ive found it to be a 2nd grade paint . At the end of the day you get what you pay for so if you can spend a few rands more and it will show in the end result .

I definitely want the outcome to be great, as the paint doesn't really look bad but the swirls and scratches bugs me. The idea is to bring her back into showroom condition since these days it is purely a weekend drive car.

[SayedMK1]

I use Duxone , PPG , and HB Body , they acrylic clear is the way to go Dont use Luxor ive found it to be a 2nd grade paint . At the end of the day you get what you pay for so if you can spend a few rands more and it will show in the end result .

I definitely want the outcome to be great, as the paint doesn't really look bad but the swirls and scratches bugs me. The idea is to bring her back into showroom condition since these days it is purely a weekend drive car.

For a great outcome your prep work is the key . Before you choose a good paint start by choosing a good primer . I recommend plascons grey high build primer 4:1 mix , its the same as the old MS primers ,Easier to sand and gives a brilliant finish .

If the damage isnt as bad as you say on your current paintwork ,I would suggest taking it to a detailer and have them see what they can do for you. Youll be shocked at how some good compounding can revive the old paintwork, I use the Menzerna range works wonders , Id speak to Lawrence on the forum . he does great work . Best of luck

[mueneni12]

So got the Menzerna range that is going on special at crazydetailer. Will see if this can fix the swirls but the front lip definitely need repainting. I am struggling to find anyone that stock Duxone or PPG though. Seems Luxor is more popular/readily available. Any idea where I can buy this?

[SayedMK1]

So got the Menzerna range that is going on special at crazydetailer. Will see if this can fix the swirls but the front lip definitely need repainting. I am struggling to find anyone that stock Duxone or PPG though. Seems Luxor is more popular/readily available. Any idea where I can buy this?

Google for a supplier in your area . Also be careful with the menzerna. make sure you know what you are doing .

[lawrence]

Also be careful with the menzerna. make sure you know what you are doing .

In what sense bud?

DAT polishes like Menzerna are way easier to deal with than say a SMAT based polish like Meguiars. As long as you remember that you will need to make sufficient passes to allow the abrasives to diminish properly - on most DA machines you are looking at 6 to 10 passes per section - you shouldn't have any issues.

Start off with the least aggressive product/pad/machine combo and only step up to a more aggressive combo if/when needed.

[SayedMK1]

Also be careful with the menzerna. make sure you know what you are doing .

In what sense bud?

DAT polishes like Menzerna are way easier to deal with than say a SMAT based polish like Meguiars. As long as you remember that you will need to make sufficient passes to allow the abrasives to diminish properly - on most DA machines you are looking at 6 to 10 passes per section - you shouldn't have any issues.

Start off with the least aggressive product/pad/machine combo and only step up to a more aggressive combo if/when needed.[/quote

What i meant was you'll have to asses the damage on the paintwork ,and use the best suited polish to correct the flaws or you could end up making it worse ,also depends what equipment you use or you could cause damage to the paintwork especially on the edges thats what i meant when i said "make sure you know what you are doing" . Ive seen your work Lawrence i dont have to teach you ..

[SayedMK1]

Also be careful with the menzerna. make sure you know what you are doing .

In what sense bud?

DAT polishes like Menzerna are way easier to deal with than say a SMAT based polish like Meguiars. As long as you remember that you will need to make sufficient passes to allow the abrasives to diminish properly - on most DA machines you are looking at 6 to 10 passes per section - you shouldn't have any issues.

Start off with the least aggressive product/pad/machine combo and only step up to a more aggressive combo if/when needed.[/quote

What i meant was you'll have to asses the damage on the paintwork ,and use the best suited polish to correct the flaws or you could end up making it worse ,also depends what equipment you use or you could cause damage to the paintwork especially on the edges thats what i meant when i said "make sure you know what you are doing" . Ive seen your work Lawrence i dont have to teach you .. . Just pointing it out from my personal experience , I have ruined some good panels before .