Starting up

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stig
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Starting up

Post by stig »

Hi Guys

So as some may already know i live in Bloemfontein. here we have two types of car washes. The one at the garage/mall/parking lot, and then we have Sonax.

i personally have not been to Sonax but i know of people that say the y regularly take their cars there for a polish. then i think why so many times? anyhow. Seems like there is a good gap in the market for someone that can detail properly. Someone that does not damage your vehicle by having someone drive it into a pole or bin, and that does not wash your car with the same mitt and bucket as he just washed mud Oom Jan's mud covered D4D hilux with.

Since i bought my car i have been trying to look after the paint by adopting the 2bm. using 2 wash mitts, washing weekly etc. I have clayed once or so. recently i bought a Shield DA on special from builders and thought that while there is such a gap in the market i could maybe exploit it for some money on the side. I do know i have **** loads to learn that is why I am coming here for some advice.

i wil probably start by detailing my own Black polo and then from there start with a few friends cars. They already said they want to be first in line when i get this off the ground as there is no real place that does this in Bloem. I know Anees is also doing this bu he is very scarce these days :hi: and also lives in Bultfontein actually.

I was not thinking of doing full paint corrections on anyone else cars yet. maybe try my own and with more confidence go from there.

what would you guys say is the bare minimum products ,tools i should get.

I have had a look at the crazy detailer, Prestine detailing sites and have looked at the following:

Wheel woolies
Detail brushes
20l buckets
Lambswool wash mits
Car chem Luxury shampoo
Car chem tyre and trim
Crazy detailer Foam cannon
gyeon Bathe
Gyeon Wetcoat - like the hydrophobic properties it has.
Collinite 845 for wax as iv heard only good things regarding durability etc.
Iron out?
No idea what APC, polishing pads, polish etc i should try. Turtle wax released a new range of polishes, also see a lot of people use the menzerna products.

I am really determined to make this work. Willing to learn and spend the time to learn and become better.

Any input is greatly appreciated.
The Ride:

'09 Polo 1.9 TDi 96KW HighLine
Mods: Straight-flow FMIC ,Stainless boost piping, RKmotion tuned, 17" Audi A5 Reps, Cobra coilovers, SMF cutch kit
H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

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GaVeN
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Re: Starting up

Post by GaVeN »

HI guy

If there's a gap, go for it. Make it work and get yourself out there. BUT, and there's always a but.

You will need to monthly, spend a good few thousand rand to get your arsenal together.
I've been doing this for a while, buying products and tools for the job as I need it. Unfortunately, after 2 break-ins, I lost most of my kit, so had to start from scratch.
There's a myriad of products, machines, tips, tricks, threads, "detailers" etc. to sift through to get decent good information. And from there, you'll have to sacrifice your own car to test out products, tools, machines etc. and cock it up before getting any good at it. And believe me when I say, there are guys that are good at it trying to compete for your piece of the pie you are trying to get.
There are hundreds of carwashes that offer "polishing" services, panelbeaters that "polish" a car, fly-by-night detailers that are out to score a quick buck...You have your work cut out for you.
Don't expect to make any money in the 1st long while, as every car you tackle will be repaying the product & kit outlay you've incurred.
Sure, there's a gap for this in Bloemfontein, but let's be honest, how many car enthusiasts are in Bloemfontein, and are willing to travel to your place to get their car looking impeccable? Are you going to offer a mobile service to go to them? What is your target audience?

If I could give you advice, it is this.

Buy what you need to be able to look after your own car, and if you have a few friends that want the same thing, help them out and make some money doing it to repay the capital investment. Rather offer them a place to have the cars maintained well by having a weekly carwash meet, let them bring beer and money & you offer the facility & car wash.
If they require something more detail related, use your tools you have available, or alternatively refer to someone in who has a fully fledged detailing setup to assist, and you maintain their vehicles for the remainder of the ownership.

I know I'm being a pessimist here, but just like everything else, the market is pretty saturated with all kinds of services, and generally, the majority of the SA population consider a polish a polish. Detailing & car care is a once a week wash with sunlight & an old beach towel. And for the other services like a panelbeater that can polish, they don't know what a hologram is, or why it shouldn't be like that. To them it is a by product of the shine
lawrence
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Re: Starting up

Post by lawrence »

I don't have the time at the moment to put together a decent response to this, but will as soon as I get a gap :thumbup:
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stig
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Re: Starting up

Post by stig »

GaVeN wrote:HI guy

If there's a gap, go for it. Make it work and get yourself out there. BUT, and there's always a but.

You will need to monthly, spend a good few thousand rand to get your arsenal together.
I've been doing this for a while, buying products and tools for the job as I need it. Unfortunately, after 2 break-ins, I lost most of my kit, so had to start from scratch.
There's a myriad of products, machines, tips, tricks, threads, "detailers" etc. to sift through to get decent good information. And from there, you'll have to sacrifice your own car to test out products, tools, machines etc. and cock it up before getting any good at it. And believe me when I say, there are guys that are good at it trying to compete for your piece of the pie you are trying to get.
There are hundreds of carwashes that offer "polishing" services, panelbeaters that "polish" a car, fly-by-night detailers that are out to score a quick buck...You have your work cut out for you.
Don't expect to make any money in the 1st long while, as every car you tackle will be repaying the product & kit outlay you've incurred.
Sure, there's a gap for this in Bloemfontein, but let's be honest, how many car enthusiasts are in Bloemfontein, and are willing to travel to your place to get their car looking impeccable? Are you going to offer a mobile service to go to them? What is your target audience?

If I could give you advice, it is this.

Buy what you need to be able to look after your own car, and if you have a few friends that want the same thing, help them out and make some money doing it to repay the capital investment. Rather offer them a place to have the cars maintained well by having a weekly carwash meet, let them bring beer and money & you offer the facility & car wash.
If they require something more detail related, use your tools you have available, or alternatively refer to someone in who has a fully fledged detailing setup to assist, and you maintain their vehicles for the remainder of the ownership.

I know I'm being a pessimist here, but just like everything else, the market is pretty saturated with all kinds of services, and generally, the majority of the SA population consider a polish a polish. Detailing & car care is a once a week wash with sunlight & an old beach towel. And for the other services like a panelbeater that can polish, they don't know what a hologram is, or why it shouldn't be like that. To them it is a by product of the shine
Thank you for the honest response. Like you said, the average person believes a polish is a polish, with a chamois and some sunlight. I got my car back from the panelshop a few weeks back and buffer trails galore. They scheme thats what it should look like. I think i will definitely start by taking care of my own car, helping out friends, helping them with weekly or maintenance washes and see where it goes from there. I know this wont be a easy income plan but it is something i am passionate about and really want to persue. Maybe sway some people into not using the corner wash and or show them what something is supposed to look like once i have some before and afters of my own car.
The Ride:

'09 Polo 1.9 TDi 96KW HighLine
Mods: Straight-flow FMIC ,Stainless boost piping, RKmotion tuned, 17" Audi A5 Reps, Cobra coilovers, SMF cutch kit
H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

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stig
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Re: Starting up

Post by stig »

lawrence wrote:I don't have the time at the moment to put together a decent response to this, but will as soon as I get a gap :thumbup:
Thank you lawrence
The Ride:

'09 Polo 1.9 TDi 96KW HighLine
Mods: Straight-flow FMIC ,Stainless boost piping, RKmotion tuned, 17" Audi A5 Reps, Cobra coilovers, SMF cutch kit
H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

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Re: Starting up

Post by Unobeat »

Great Post Stig!!
Looking forward to Lawrence reply and great post Gaven.

Is there a minimum budget to start working with to get tools guys(Ahmed.Syed, Deranged_9n3, Lambchop, CARL@ACS, mikhail117, N3mo, LostEnigma, etc)
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Re: Starting up

Post by GaVeN »

Unobeat wrote:Great Post Stig!!
Looking forward to Lawrence reply and great post Gaven.

Is there a minimum budget to start working with to get tools guys(Ahmed.Syed, Deranged_9n3, Lambchop, CARL@ACS, mikhail117, N3mo, LostEnigma, etc)
Nope, the industry keeps changing, new tools, new products, trial, error, bad product etc.
You buy items for yourself as you need, with the intent that you will be using it going forward. Sometimes you buy items to test, or read a good review on, but doesn't fulfil your needs and ends up sitting on a shelf somewhere. Or you buy a pad, and make a mistake taking a gouge out of it, bam, R250 down the drain.

For instance, I'm looking at replacing my DA with a more top of the range unit that will reduce my time spent on a car, and possibly deliver better results, but struggling to justify the outlay at this point in time.

And, to add, the monthly top-up cost of product is quite a kicker once you get busy.

I always use this analogy: "Owning a toolbox doesn't make you a mechanic, and knowing how to apply laminx & use plastidip doesn't make you a car customiser"
The same goes for this, owning a DA polisher, even the top of the range unit, doesn't make you a detailer. And the DA is only one small item in the arsenal of things you need to actually detail a car.
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stig
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Re: Starting up

Post by stig »

GaVeN wrote:[quote=
I always use this analogy: "Owning a toolbox doesn't make you a mechanic, and knowing how to apply laminx & use plastidip doesn't make you a car customiser"
The same goes for this, owning a DA polisher, even the top of the range unit, doesn't make you a detailer. And the DA is only one small item in the arsenal of things you need to actually detail a car.
This I fully understand, but we all start somewhere and i thought I'd like to start here get soem inputs from guys that have been doing it for a while. I am now at the point where I dont want to talk and or google and read about it anymore. I want to get stuck in, see whats what, and learn practically.
The Ride:

'09 Polo 1.9 TDi 96KW HighLine
Mods: Straight-flow FMIC ,Stainless boost piping, RKmotion tuned, 17" Audi A5 Reps, Cobra coilovers, SMF cutch kit
H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

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GaVeN
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Re: Starting up

Post by GaVeN »

stig wrote:
GaVeN wrote:[quote=
I always use this analogy: "Owning a toolbox doesn't make you a mechanic, and knowing how to apply laminx & use plastidip doesn't make you a car customiser"
The same goes for this, owning a DA polisher, even the top of the range unit, doesn't make you a detailer. And the DA is only one small item in the arsenal of things you need to actually detail a car.
This I fully understand, but we all start somewhere and i thought I'd like to start here get soem inputs from guys that have been doing it for a while. I am now at the point where I dont want to talk and or google and read about it anymore. I want to get stuck in, see whats what, and learn practically.
I'll send you a PM now, get you started :wink:
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Re: Starting up

Post by Ahmed.Syed »

Hi Stig

As per above... The range of products and equipment is changing all the time and as Gaven mentioned, your first year or so (could be longer) will have you not seeing any profit or gain as you're gonna be recovering from your capital investments iro tools, product etc.

It's a lot of researching and seeking advice as well when it comes to making purchases so that you're not getting yourself stuff that you don't actually need. Lawrence has a write up on the basic requirements (if i remember correctly) and you should be able to plan from there. That combined with your monthly spend for product replenishment etc (as per Gaven) will see you moving in the right direction.

It is quite a chore getting out there and you will need to put your back into it as again, the general consumer will always say "but I can get that done for R300 at the car wash down the road" . The idea of having a weekly meet with your chaps and offering the maintenance washes is quite a brilliant idea AND you'll be able to showcase the progress you've made on your personal vehicle with confidence. You can school the locals on the differences between a detail and a carwash on the corner.

With regards to Budget, you've already got a DA so based on Lawrence's guide you will be able to ascertain what you will need and work from there. I started with a DA kit from CD, brushes, Product and MF towels and just worked my way from there. Every month is going to be a new purchase at that rate :) . I find that once I've inspected and ascertained what the detail will consist off, I go through my goodies to see if i have all the stuff needed to complete the details. If not, I order what is needed and bill a portion of the details return towards to equipment/product purchased. Hope that makes sense

Hope this helps sir

Ahmed - Over n Out
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Re: Starting up

Post by lawrence »

Right.... I would assume you have read through this guide http://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=166322I put together a couple of years ago? If not, read it now, then come back here... then I would assume you have already read through all the write ups posted by myself and the other detailers, as well as this thread here.... http://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=180689. Hopefully this gives you a little insight into what you are getting yourself into.

Here are a few key things I think you need to wrap your head around:

1. Target market
Is it your typical car wash client - if so, he will require A LOT of education before he is willing to change his ways. He will typically be dropping R50/week on having someone scratch his car for him, but to him, the dirt is off and the car looks clean so he's happy.... trying to get him to now drop hundreds or even thousands of rands on a 'detail'.... well, it ain't easy... and education is key but for him, his car is an appliance and he doesn't really 'love it'

Is it your 'normal' car enthusiast.... you know the kinda dude who will happily throw R5 to R10k on new wheels, or a couple of grand on software, or thousands to slam his car....like the sort okes hanging out on here....? If so, you will be surprised to know a lot of them will still look at you sideways if you ask for a couple of grand to detail his car....even though they 'love' their cars and even though they throw similar money at other 'mods', they still don't see the value in a detail.

Is it owners of high-end cars only. If so, it is not safe to assume that just because they have the money, they are willing to spend it.

Having said all of the above, there is no way of telling WHO the owners are who really love their cars... I've detailed a Toyota Hilux work bakkie for someone who honestly loves, appreciates and looks after it more that the owner of the 458 Italia I detailed... My point is, there are only so many people out there who see the value in, and are willing to pay for, a detail. Of these people, expectations vary a lot, and thus, so will the pricing and work performed. You need to understand what the client's expectations and wants are, and offer a service that matches.... owners of farm bakkies aren't gonna fork out for supercar details and owners of supercars don't want farm bakkie details.

2. Production or show car detailing
Tied into the first point is the type of detailing you want to do. Broadly speaking you could split detailing into 2 types, namely 'Production' detailing or 'show car' detailing.

They are completely different things and if you try do show car detailing at production detailing prices, you will loose interest in detailing very quickly. Conversely if you are demanding show car detailing prices and offering production detailing type services, you won't have a client base for very long.

You can think of production detailing as 'make my car look better in a short amount of time' whereas show car detailing is more like 'make my car as close to perfect as it can be, regardless of how long it takes'.

To give you an idea, a production detail may look something like this:
No engine bay
Give wheels and arches a basic clean (slightly better than the local car wash, but not a full detail on the wheels) [often people will use Meguiars Wheel Brightner for this as it is super quick, but, its a farking strong acid containing ammonium-biflouride, which is VERY risky - I refuse to use the stuff)
Pressure rinse the car
Foam it
Before rinsing, clay it with a clay mitt or clay pad on a machine
Dry
Apply an AIO by machine
Clean the glass
Vacuum
Dress the tires and trim

You would be done and dusted within 5 to 7 hours and spend a couple of hundred rand on products, and would probably be charging R750 to R1500 per car, and the biggest issues you will face are:
- maximizing efficiency because in this environment, time is money and every second counts as its low margin, high volume work
- most of these customers are gonna be okes who typically use the car wash for polishing
- the client's shop on price rather than quality
- keeping product costs down to maximize profits, which often leads to shortcuts and ultimately there lands up being nothing to differentiate you from every other 'detailer' out there.

If you wanna do production detailing, I'd advise you to seriously consider purchasing a Flex 3401 - the forced rotation combined with its reputation for being an absolute workhorse, means you can attack cars one of the other with no fear of the machine slowing you down.

Doing show-car detailing is a lot different. I can't speak for others but most of my details will range from 20 to 40 man-hours per car, depending on the work being done.... the objective here is 'close to perfect' not simply 'make it better'. As such the amount of work, the quality of the work and the price of the tools/products etc required increases sharply. An example of a show-car detail would look something like:

Engine bay cleaned
Dress plastics in engine bay
Polish and protect painted surfaces
Fender wells cleaned and dressed
Tires cleaned and dressed
Wheels cleaned
Iron removed from wheels
Tar removed from wheels
Wheels clayed
Wheels polished
Wheels protected
Car pre-rinsed
Car foamed
TFR applied to car
Tar removed from car
Iron removed from car
Car clayed
1 or 2 dedicated steps of paint correction
Taillights corrected
Paint protected
Door jambs cleaned
Door jambs protected
Glass cleaned inside and out
Exterior glass decontaminated, polished and a hydrophobic coating applied
Exhaust tips polished
Interior and exterior rubbers cleaned and protected
Interior and exterior plastics cleaned and protected
Leather or cloth seats cleaned and protected
Vacuum
Clean matts
Clean pedals

You would taking more like 20 to 30 hours (just stop for a second and think about, working on your own, and having to squeeze all of those hours into a weekend - its hard graft and not for sissies :lol: ) and spend more like a grand or so on products, and would probably be charging R3000 to R5000 per car (excluding the hellishly expensive coatings) and the biggest issues you will face are:
- trying to stay awake :yawn:
- trying to find people willing to pay you a decent rate
- acquiring the necessary skills to be able to perform work to this level
- learning when to stop correcting to preserve the paint

3. Mobile or fixed location
Being mobile becomes super convenient for your client, but really inconvenient for you to lug all your stuff around. Access to running water, electricity and having a suitable spot to detail are all sort of out of your control. You may have to deal with working in the sun, which is never recommended.

With a fixed location there are additional costs, unless you work out your garage. But then starting thinking about the safety of the customer's car, bitchy neighbors etc etc

4. Product knowledge theory
Bottom line is the people who make detailing products are in the business of making money, and there is so much marketing crap out there that is designed to relieve you of your hard earned money, that you have to be able to sift through it and figure out what the product is actually all about. An example I use often is from one of my favorite detailing brands, Valet Pro, who market their Billberry Wheel Cleaner as 'acid free' - when you hear that you think 'cool, its safe' and you don't give a second thought to any risks associated with the product... BUT.... Billberry is simply just a high Alkaline cleaner that can be just as dangerous as an acidic wheel cleaner, its just drawing it's cleaning strength from the opposite side of the PH scale... There are also a lot of other products that claim to deliver all sorts of wonderful things but really fail to deliver...

You will also HAVE to learn how to read a Safety Data Sheet (SDS, previously referred to as MSDS) if you give half a ish about a) your own health and safety b) the safety of the surfaces you are working and/or c) the environment. The SDS will give you info about what is actually IN the bottle, not the marketing hyperbole on the label, and will inform you how to deal with first aid in terms of getting product in your eyes, on your skin, inhaling it or even worse, ingesting it. It will also give you info on storage and handling requirements including things like the appropriate PPE (nitrile gloves, safety goggles and a respirator are the most commonly required items).

You will also need to wrap your head around how products are designed to be used too. Can it be used in the sun, how long can it stay on the paint for, can you top this sealant with that wax, are there temp restrictions for usage etc etc.

When it comes to the actual polishes, you need to know what abrasive technology it uses. Is it SMAT (Super Micro Abrasive Technology) like most Meguiars stuff, DAT (Diminishing Abrasive Technology) like a lot of Menzerna polishes, or AAT (Adaptive Agglomerated Technology) like some Menzerna polishes and a lot of HD polishes. The different abrasive technologies will determine how many passes need to be made per section, if you wipe the product off wet, or work it until only the carrier oils remain etc etc. Online forums provide a good resource for learning such theory, but remember, subjectivity is still rife as people have their favorites and some people online simply cannot be trusted, so its gonna take a while to sift through the BS and get to the 'truth'.

5. Product knowledge practical
Even after spending hours pouring over online literature and watching countless videos, the point has to come where you go out and actually use the products and see how they work for YOU. This obviously means a 'budget' for 'product testing'.... and the time to actually play with the stuff. Your climate, techniques or even the car you are working on can influence how a product performs and so at the end of the day, there is no right product, only a product that is right for you. You will need to work out how much product you use per car so you can establish what to charge, and to ensure you re-order in time so you are never out of product.

6. Process knowledge theory
Obviously you will need to learn what is actually happening with each process you need to perform. How does clay actually work, why wouldn't you allow an iron remover to dry on your paint. Why would you wash before decontaminating etc. Then you will need to have an initial understanding of how long each process should take (especially in the production detailing environment).

7. Process knowledge practical
Then you will go start actually performing these processes and realize what works for other may not work for you. What takes some 30 minutes may take you 90. Developing a process that works for you will take some time.

8. Equipment
I think this will largely be driven by the type of detailing you choose to do (production/show car) and nothing is cheap - pretty much everything is imported and so shipping and the exchange rate always make things difficult. There is no right or wrong equipment, except to say noobs need to stay the eff away from rotary polishers, wool pads and rubbing compounds...

Tools
So obviously you need a polisher - you have the shield and I used mine on the first 70 odd details I did, so I don't care what anyone says, the machine is capable enough.... BUT.... its not the quickest. There are many types of machines available such as:
-8mm free floating spindle DA (like the Shield and probably around R2K)
-12mm/15mm/21mm long throw free floating spindle DA like the Rupes (ranging from I guess around R7k to R13K)
-8mm forced rotation DA like the Flex 3401 (around R7k)
-Full sized rotaries
-Lightweight rotaries
-Mini polishers like the Rupes iBrid Nano allowing you to use 1", 2" and 3" pads

What you choose will be driven by the type of work you need to do (production/show car). You will also need at least a finishing polish, a medium cut polish and a compound, to give you some flexibility over multiple cars. Then the single biggest area people starting off fail in is simply not getting enough pads. They come in all shapes and sizes, made out of all kinds of material and all cut and finish differently. There is no right or wrong pad, but you will need a 'range' of pads including some pads to apply waxes/sealants, finishing pads to apply AIO's and finishing polishes, polishing pads for fine to medium polishes, light cutting pads from medium to heavy compounds and aggressive wool/mf pads for heavy cutting. You will also need plenty of each type (especially for production detailing)

A paint thickness gauge is a definite must for correction work and a quality high pressure washer and foam cannon are also good investments. Then there is the obvious stuff like 3 buckets (1 wash, 1 rinse, 1 wheels), grit guards, wash mitts and drying towels. And microfiber towels... again, you will need a LOT more than you think. Really. A lot more....expect to throw a couple of grand at this.

Products
Some go the route of using only a specific brand, others like me pick and chose from multiple brands (I personally just don't believe any one brand can make the best of everything). There are just so many out there, some which do as they say, some which are useless, some are real bargains and some are a complete rip off. The thing to remember is each and every product has its own characteristics (price per application, ease of use, user experience etc) and so my favorite product may be your most hated.... there is no right or wrong, only what works for you....on the one hand, I encourage you to play with different stuff, and on the other I recommend that once you find a product you like and it works for you, just stick to it. Focus on what the product does, not what the clever marketing would have you believe it does.

9.Pricing structure
There are so many ways to skin this cat - and I don't have any advice expect to say that once you start off 'cheap' (to get a foot in the door) it becomes very difficult to then dramatically up your rate once you feel you are worth more. If you try start off at a price point you think you are worth, without a proven track record, it will be hard to get customers to trust that you are worth the price you ask.

Geographical location
The same work performed on a car in JHB will command a higher price than if it were performed in Durban and I'd assume you'd seem something similar in Bloem - you can only charge what the market will accept and unfortunately there are large disparities between what people are willing to pay depending on where they live.

I feel like there is so much more to say but hopefully for now, this has given you a bit to think about.... you are welcome to shout back with any specific questions you may still have.

The detailing section on this forum actually has some really good content and so it should be the starting point of your research. Then I'd get onto Autogeekonline.net and read as much as you can on there. Autopia.org is another good detailing forum. Then watch Larry Kossila's (AMMO NYC) youtube videos, along with Junkman (he is a good resource for noobs, but his videos are very long winded) and then any videos or content by Mike Phillips, Kevin Brown, Tood Helme, Barry Theal, Jason Rose and Michael Stoops.

Renny Doyle also has a really excellent book about starting a home detailing business, and Mike Phillips has a couple too. All well worth the read.
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stig
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Re: Starting up

Post by stig »

Ahmed.Syed wrote:Hi Stig

As per above... The range of products and equipment is changing all the time and as Gaven mentioned, your first year or so (could be longer) will have you not seeing any profit or gain as you're gonna be recovering from your capital investments iro tools, product etc.

It's a lot of researching and seeking advice as well when it comes to making purchases so that you're not getting yourself stuff that you don't actually need. Lawrence has a write up on the basic requirements (if i remember correctly) and you should be able to plan from there. That combined with your monthly spend for product replenishment etc (as per Gaven) will see you moving in the right direction.

It is quite a chore getting out there and you will need to put your back into it as again, the general consumer will always say "but I can get that done for R300 at the car wash down the road" . The idea of having a weekly meet with your chaps and offering the maintenance washes is quite a brilliant idea AND you'll be able to showcase the progress you've made on your personal vehicle with confidence. You can school the locals on the differences between a detail and a carwash on the corner.

With regards to Budget, you've already got a DA so based on Lawrence's guide you will be able to ascertain what you will need and work from there. I started with a DA kit from CD, brushes, Product and MF towels and just worked my way from there. Every month is going to be a new purchase at that rate :) . I find that once I've inspected and ascertained what the detail will consist off, I go through my goodies to see if i have all the stuff needed to complete the details. If not, I order what is needed and bill a portion of the details return towards to equipment/product purchased. Hope that makes sense

Hope this helps sir

Ahmed - Over n Out
Thank you for the insight. I have alot of MF towels already, and some mequirs products from Makro, but i feel that im not getting what i need from these products. I have a black car and when i apply mequirs Gold class carnuaba wax it seems like the thing is a magnet for dust. I think it might be creating a positive charge on the paint wich attracts the dust.

Knowing wich products do what before buying to save me from buying something like you said that I dont need is the starting point now. Then i will invest time using the products and building experience as to what i like and gives me the results i want.
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H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

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Re: Starting up

Post by stig »

Let me start by saying this is why I came here. Something about the detailing section in this forum that’s just different. People are always ready to help, and supply so much knowledge.

Lawrence thank you for the in depth reply. Obviously there is a loooong road ahead, and not an easy or cheap one either. This might work, it might turn to **** but like I said in a earlier post I'm willing to give it a shot.
lawrence wrote:Right.... I would assume you have read through this guide http://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=166322I put together a couple of years ago? If not, read it now, then come back here... then I would assume you have already read through all the write ups posted by myself and the other detailers, as well as this thread here.... http://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=180689. Hopefully this gives you a little insight into what you are getting yourself into.
Indeed I did read those topics. that was where I started almost a year ago when I knew nothing about washing a car accept, gooing some sunlight in a bucket with a sponge :bang: . Since I have got my current car I have ben doing at least 2BM wash weekly, with a foam cannon pre wash, and some clay once when I got it. THink there is still a thread somewhere..http://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=183042

Target Market:
yeah this is where things get tricky. All of the people that I have tried to educate have me they can go to Sasol for a wash at R70. then they don’t believe me when I say they scratch you paint with the mud that came of the bakkie that went before you. Others will say well I’ll take it for a valet at the mall. The horror stories I have heard from peoples cars getting damaged there, not even talking about the valet. They avg valet is around R300 - R500 in Bloem. Then they pressure wash engine, wash carpets, and wash outside of car with some nice silicone tyre/dash sheen. it al looks very 'blink' but I don’t think it is worth it in the end. Others differ

So this definitely is the main issue, educating people, identifiying the people that will take care of their care afterwards. I have a few friends that are really into looking after their cars. But then again when I told them I am thinking of starting up some detailing, one guy said "I’ll give you R200 to detail my Mk7 GI". I was like mmm thanks but that’ll probably get you an exterior wash and inside wipe down. No "detail".
People are not willing to pay that much around here for anything. There is a guy on a local FB group that says he does polishing etc. for R300 per car. Probably rotary, and probably some trials included. Hard to compete with. So I think this will be one of the biggest challenges.

If I can get a few cars done, get a portfolio of some sorts going and people can see results and what I’m offering it might make it easier. But that’s down the road. Another possible market might be the second-hand car dealerships. I have walked around their showrooms a few times and then you see these beautiful BMW, Audi, Merc with just the most insane amount of swirls. And I’m thinking if I was in the market I won’t buy that car just because of that. Maybe I can convince these guys that it will increase their products value after a proper detail?

Production or showroom
I have read this on auto geek. like you said I will have t assess the expectations and budget of each client and try and get a median for what services I will offer. Probably only start with basic washes and protection. So mostly production without corrections, until I’m more skilled and comfortable with the DA.

Now that summer is coming again, we had major water restrictions this time last year because of the drought. Municipalities where handing out fines left and right. The garage car washes were making killings but the lines to get cars washed were long. Waterless might be something that I will look into offering as well.

3. Mobile or fixed location
Bloem is quite small so travelling won’t be an issue. But the lugging around of equipment is the problem. Polo not that big hey. So fixed it is.

4. Product knowledge theory
Hory shite. There are so many products and labels and and out there. I do quite like the chemical guy’s products, from what I have seen on YouTube. Even thought of buying a Torq10fx kit from amazon. But then usually I think about is it worth the shipping? Can’t I find something similar for the same or cheaper price in SA?

5. Product knowledge practical
6. Process knowledge theory
7. Process knowledge practical
This weekend I tried to use some ultimate compound on the standard black pad that came with the DA on my boot lid. It was vibrating and slinging product everywhere, so I just stopped because I knew I was doing something wrong. The big 5" pad also is not ideal I think. I’d like a more compact pad to start with. Then I looked at CD website, and now its constant pressure and sizes and shapes and I was joh might as well ask on the forum as I have no idea what to try.

8. Equipment
I have a Karcher k3 premium pressure washer, the k2.360 broke so I took it back to makro for refund and upgrade slightly t this one. I have the Shield DA. Some microfibers. I do think that wheel woollies, fender brush and some detail brushes will be some of my first purchases. The other brushes you buy from makro are just bad and break on me all the time.

9.Pricing structure
I agree. Will be a difficult one to find a sweet spot for what people here want and are willing to pay.

[quote:"lawrence"]The detailing section on this forum actually has some really good content and so it should be the starting point of your research. Then I'd get onto Autogeekonline.net and read as much as you can on there. Autopia.org is another good detailing forum. Then watch Larry Kossila's (AMMO NYC) YouTube videos, along with Junkman (he is a good resource for noobs, but his videos are very long winded) and then any videos or content by Mike Phillips, Kevin Brown, Tood Helme, Barry Theal, Jason Rose and Michael Stoops.[/quote]

I have watched alot of Chemical guys videos, as well as the whole Drive clean series by Larry. I really like the way he explains things and gets to the point. There is this other oke, think the channels name is Auto fetish detail. His videos are sooo damn long and really long winded, he tries to explain something to much i think.

Once again thank you for the insight. and i will post back regularly with questions and or updates on some of my first attempts. I’m lucky enough to have a great test subject. Black polo tdi that has been neglected so bad by previous owner, so it is a good place to start and see what i can achieve with it.

Signing out
Koot
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'09 Polo 1.9 TDi 96KW HighLine
Mods: Straight-flow FMIC ,Stainless boost piping, RKmotion tuned, 17" Audi A5 Reps, Cobra coilovers, SMF cutch kit
H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

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Re: Starting up

Post by lawrence »

Yeah Darren from Autofetish produces some long ass videos, but if you think they are bad, try watch some of Matt Moreman's stuff - yoh :eek:

As for the willingness to share, I'd like to give my take on it.... You are gonna come across two types of detailers.... those that won't share their knowledge (cos they scared you will steal their customers) and those that will.... those that won't tell you what products they use (cos they scared you find out what they use doesn't tie up to what they charge) and those that will.

The bottom line is that, if anyone truly wanted to teach themselves everything they need to know about detailing, all they need to do is spend enough time on the net learning the theory and then go put it into practice, so, by being one of those guys who doesn't want to share the knowledge, you only land up making yourself look like a cake, and if you are so insecure about your ability to retain your clients through the quality of your work, perhaps you should look for something else to do.

I am more than happy to teach anyone everything I know if they want to start detailing - because I know that very few actually have enough passion to make a long term go of it.... it really is bloody hard work for minimal return.... you have to WANT to detail. If there is no passion, you won't last.... and if you have the passion and do make a success out of it, it will be cool to have played a small part in helping you get going.

Plus, one of the guys I really look up to in this industry coined the phrase 'each one teach one' and is always willing to share his knowledge with anyone seeking it - so I'd like to try do the same.

Just a heads up - whilst Chemical Guys makes some nice products (Pete's 53, V07, blackilight among others) a) there are A LOT of 'crossover' products that seem to do the same job as other products, and a lot of the yanks can't stand the company due to their marketing strategy (which mostly involves appealing to horny dudes with lots of scantily clad wominz :lol: ). Their line of polishes is really not worth looking into, IMO, but like with everything detailing, we each have our own opinions on what to do, what products to use, what to charge etc etc....

The okes offering polishing for R300 need to be shot - they are perpetuating this idea that it takes a couple of minutes to spread some liquid over your car and BAM its shiny.... they do more damage than good, but because uneducated customers know no better and accept such crappy work, they get away with it.

As for as products go for starting out, I'd like to suggest a bottle of Meguiars Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish. Both use SMAT Abrasives, which means you can work the polish for as long or as short as required. The advantage is that you can make 1 pass, inspect, if you happy, stop.... if not, make another pass.... keep repeating till you happy.... whereas with DAT polished they need to be worked for a certain period to allow the abrasives to breakdown.

UC plays nicely with almost all paint including single stage, and given you can adjust the cut based on the number of passes you make, its actually quite versatile. Ultimate polish is a much less aggressive polish, but uses the same abrasive technology.

To use it, prime your pad, add 3 pea sized drops, work a section 3 x pads wide by 3 pads high at a time, turn the machine on ONLY once it is on the paint (and don't life the machine off the paint until it stops spinning). wipe off and inspect. Run the machine at speed 4.5. Remember to mark your backing plate to make sure you can see it is still rotating and add enough pressure to engage the abrasives into the paint, but not so much the backing plate stops spinning.

5.5" pads are ideal for the Shield with the standard backing plate. You will need a 3.5: BP to run 4.5" pads on it, should you choose to.

Wheel woolies are really nice, but there will be wheels where you cannot get in everywhere with them. This is where the Daytona/Speedmaster brushes come into their own - you really need both to cover all eventualities, along with some brushes like the ValetPro Sash brushes

You have a pressure washer already. A foam cannon will make a nice add-on.

Then look at some decent shampoo and all purpose cleaner (Carchem's stuff is well priced and works really well), some clay and lube and something for protection (endless options but bang for buck Collinite 845 is hard to beat and the bottle will last you AGES).

Stay away from solvent based dressings

Stay away from Amonia based window cleaners

Buy more microfibers, then buy some more :lol:

:hi:
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Re: Starting up

Post by GaVeN »

Lawrence hit the nail on the head.
Expect to be completely bankrupt for the next year at least before you can even think of showing any sort of profit for your efforts.
Like I said, start off small, and offer a wash service for your local mates and sell them a detail with real life results from your car for instance
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Re: Starting up

Post by lawrence »

@stig..... Its probably a long shot, but if you are ever in Durban you are welcome to give me a shout and maybe we can organize a hands on training session for you - even if I am not detailing a car at the time, I have the practice bonnet we can play on...

Just putting it out there :thumbup:
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Re: Starting up

Post by stig »

lawrence wrote:@stig..... Its probably a long shot, but if you are ever in Durban you are welcome to give me a shout and maybe we can organize a hands on training session for you - even if I am not detailing a car at the time, I have the practice bonnet we can play on...

Just putting it out there Image
Wil do thanks. Next year dubrub. Ill stay longer and we can detail mineImage

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H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

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Re: Starting up

Post by lawrence »

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Re: Starting up

Post by Adam_Mech »

Hey bud, sounds like a good idea! Good luck and all the best, lucky for you I'm one of the guys who understands the concept of "looking after and maintaining a car" so if my piggy bank gets heavier you've got yourself a customer :hi:

On a side note, perhaps speak to Carel on the whatsapp group, I remember having a chat with him about doing a detail when I still had the golf. Apparently he tried starting a detailing business on the side but people weren't prepared to pay...he quoted me R1000 for a polish and paint correction. Judging by the way his own car looks I'd say he knows what he's doing.

Good luck with this venture bud. :hug:
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Re: Starting up

Post by dazza »

The other guys can comment, but The likes of Larry Kosillo of AmmoNYC has some really helpful videos on YouTube. Perhaps spend the next month to two watching as many of his videos as possible, the guy really explains stuff well and his videos are well done in my opinion.

Even if you can start by doing really good washes using the right technique, you may find that those people who appreciate that will then be enthusiastic about the next step being a proper detail.

Oh and you need to be really passionate about this. I myself have bought a bunch of things as I wanted to learn to detail so I could "restore" my own 87 golf. One thing I can tell you is that I am happy working on my own car but would not be in the least interested to spend 40 hours over a weekend working on someone else's car even for R5000! I can start detailing my car then get tired and just leave it to finish the next weekend, a clients will not be very happy if you decided to do that to them.
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Re: Starting up

Post by stig »

Sooo guys...as we say in Afrikaans...ek het oe toe geknyp and bought some goodies from CD.

Picture below

this is what i bought. Forgot APC, and had to get Turtlewax foam as the valetpro was out of stock. Shouldhave bought some Microfibres as well. Maar nee wil mos nie hoor nie. Detailed my car this weekend. did not get too many pics of that as time and light and camera skills were lacking. ill add one pic of my C panel below. do a full write up in new thread.

2 ea. CrazyDetailer - Grit Guard bucket Insert
1 ea. CD Snow Foam Cannon v3
1 ea. Crazydetailer 20L Wash & Rinse Bucket with Lids (SET)
2 ea. Marked Bottle & Adjustable Mist Sprayer (750ml)
1 ea. Vikan - Spoke & Grill Brush
1 ea. ValetPro - Large Sash Detailing Brush
1 ea. ValetPro - Dash brush (Natural hair)
1 ea. CrazyDetailer - Supreme Drying Towel V3 (90x64cm)
1 ea. Menzerna - Medium Cut Polish 2400 250ml
1 ea. Menzerna - Super Finish 3500 250ml
1 ea. Menzerna - Heavy Cut Compound 400 250ml
1 ea. Collinite - Liquid Insulator Wax #845
1 ea. Turtle Wax - HyperFoam Shampoo 1L
1 ea. CarChem Iron Contaminant Remover REVOLT 1 Litre
1 ea. CarChem Tyre & Trim Gel 500ml
1 ea. ValetPRO - Bilberry Acid Free Wheel Cleaner 1L
2 ea. CrazyDetailer - Woolie Wash Mitt
1 ea. CarChem Luxury Shampoo Concentrate 500ml
2 ea. Hi-Gloss Constant Pressure Black Finishing Pad (5.5 inch)
2 ea. Hi-Gloss Constant Pressure Orange Light Cutting Pad (5.5 inch)
2 ea. Hi-Gloss Constant Pressure White Polishing Pad (5.5 inch)
2 ea. Hi-Gloss Constant Pressure Yellow 5.5 inch CCS Compound Pad

Image

Before
Image

After
Image

This was using shield DA, Menzerna fg400 and yellow LC ccs pad. Still felt like i needed more cut, maybe it is inexperience and not working product long enough. but overall im happy.

And a random after the wash
Image

Comments welcome
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H&M Dyno Night: 114KW 429NM
Dubrun 2016 Autotrix Durban: 131KW 458NM Wulfchip Stage 2
Blackout 2017 Precision Race Dyno: 120kw and 450NM RK-motion Stage 2

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Re: Starting up

Post by lawrence »

:hurray:

Nice correction work there bud - well done.
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Re: Starting up

Post by Ahmed.Syed »

lawrence wrote::hurray:

Nice correction work there bud - well done.
:iagree:

Nice comparison after the correction bud

Well done


Looking forward to your write-up
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Re: Starting up

Post by Rsi huntered »

:troll: :troll: :troll:

Nicely Done bud...... :hurray: :hurray:
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Re: Starting up

Post by dazza »

I did not see any clay bar in your list, did you get any? You should ideally not be polishing a surface that has a lot of contaminants.
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