My 2.0 8V conversion - Another update (28/08/2006)

[david16v]

What a waste of money!!!!!!!!!
Fuel injected tank - good!
Fuel lines - good!

Motor - waste of money re-doing everything!!!!!!!!
Should have just bought a 2.0L 16V and run on dictator/gotech seeing that you were putting a fuel injected tank and lines in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My friend had had a mk2 gts and when he decided to redo the engine he spent +-R14000 ( new pistons, new big ends, con-rod bolts, head bolts, gaskets, etc) For an extra +-10-15kw!!!!!!!!!!!!! and when you get that power it kind of limits the 1.8 8valve hydaulic engine!

I also have a mk2 gts which had 292000 on the clock, so I decided to go 2.0L 16V route. Jap engines have hardly any mileage on them.
Upon opening the engine, the pistons still looked brand new!! It had also been running with an automatic gearbox
I spent in total R15000 !!!!!!!! (running on 40 sidies- Gti mk5 killer!)
I got +-120kw versus an extra 10kw which my friend went!!!!! and this engine has standard cams!

Dont see the logic????:
Standard 2.0L 16v (120kw @ the fly with sidies (standard), can be modded with throttles and cams + flowing for much more power)

VS

modded 1.8 8V (90kw with cams, oversized pistons, etc) pushing nearlly its limit!!!!

Anyway I think the pictures are really great, keep up the good work. Good insperation for the DIY guys to get involved and do the engine + box themselves.

[MacMan]

What a waste of money!!!!!!!!!
Fuel injected tank - good!
Fuel lines - good!

Motor - waste of money re-doing everything!!!!!!!!
Should have just bought a 2.0L 16V and run on dictator/gotech seeing that you were putting a fuel injected tank and lines in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My friend had had a mk2 gts and when he decided to redo the engine he spent +-R14000 ( new pistons, new big ends, con-rod bolts, head bolts, gaskets, etc) For an extra +-10-15kw!!!!!!!!!!!!! and when you get that power it kind of limits the 1.8 8valve hydaulic engine!

I also have a mk2 gts which had 292000 on the clock, so I decided to go 2.0L 16V route. Jap engines have hardly any mileage on them.
Upon opening the engine, the pistons still looked brand new!! It had also been running with an automatic gearbox
I spent in total R15000 !!!!!!!! (running on 40 sidies- Gti mk5 killer!)
I got +-120kw versus an extra 10kw which my friend went!!!!! and this engine has standard cams!

Dont see the logic????:
Standard 2.0L 16v (120kw @ the fly with sidies (standard), can be modded with throttles and cams + flowing for much more power)

VS

modded 1.8 8V (90kw with cams, oversized pistons, etc) pushing nearlly its limit!!!!

Anyway I think the pictures are really great, keep up the good work. Good insperation for the DIY guys to get involved and do the engine + box themselves.

Calling my conversion a waste of money without knowing the thought process behind my decision, or the cost of the conversion, is a VERY ignorant of you.

PS. I spent just over half of what you spent, I almost doubled my power and my fuel consumption decreased by 2l / 100km... a waste of money?

PPS. You went through the effort of fitting a 2.0 16V motor, why ruin it by running it on sidies? What is your fuel consumption like?

PPPS. What's so great about killing MK5 GTis at the coast? My "waste of money" 2.0 8V does that too.

[sixteen10]

Calling my conversion a waste of money without knowing the thought process behind my decision, or the cost of the conversion, is a VERY ignorant of you.

PS. I spent just over half of what you spent, I almost doubled my power and my fuel consumption decreased by 2l / 100km... a waste of money?

PPS. You went through the effort of fitting a 2.0 16V motor, why ruin it by running it on sidies? What is your fuel consumption like?

PPPS. What's so great about killing MK5 GTis at the coast? My "waste of money" 2.0 8V does that too.

+ 1 as i have the same 2.0i 8v conversion!

best money i've spent !!!!

[1.6carbster]

Yiss dude,what a useless argument you got going there for yourself? 2L 16V on sidies? Haha! Macman just helped me with my 'waste of money' conversion,and it cost me around r7500,with at least 95kw at the fly,and i get 150km more on a tank of fuel! Dude,you fail with your argument!

[nasti]

Lol my waste of money was inspired by Mac Man and fuel economy an power great ! ! ! 16v sideez Lol

[Xp2200]

Sorry guys did I read right? 16v on sidies????

[MacMan]

Sorry guys did I read right? 16v on sidies????

It has been done a few time before, but I don't see the point because he took a motor that was ready to run EFI and fitted carbs to it. A properly tuned management system would make more power, be more driveable and use less fuel doing it.

Anyway, different strokes for different folks I guess.

[david16v]

You are not understanding what I am saying.
Yes, your car can beat mk5 gti`s but you are pushing your limit with the 8valve engine! Your car is much more modded than my standard 16v!!

I beat them and my engine is completely standard!

So imagine if I also had to do: Fuel management with standard inlet manifold, vr6 throttle body, 288 degree cams, flowed head, oversized pistons, I would be lookin at about 145kw plus!!

Imagine how I would kill the gti mk5!
And I get 530km on a tank (unleaded)

Just to let you know when you buy a Jap engine, everything like, water pipes, airbox pipe, wiring harness has all been cut!!!!
The only thing there is the throttle body on the inlet manifold!
To lay out money for engine management (gotech), injectors, fuel tank, fuel lines, etc, your lookin at about R4000 and up

Got the sidies for nothing due to a straight swap, sidies are in awesome condition!

I have stax of friends racing at killarney in the gti challenge, one of them being Greig Edwards (winner 2007, class A polo 2.0 16V on 45 sidies), his car gave continous problems with management with some tp100 (throttle sensor) giving ****!!!!!
He then decided to switch to 45 sidies, upon changing to sidies, straight to the dyno he got more power than management. he had to detune the car!!!!
With his 16v (pushing restricted 147kw) he won the gti challenge last year, due to obviously being an awesome driver but also due to the other guys having **** with there management!!!!

Main point is that if I had to do the same mods you have done, imagine the power I would have! No 8valve would be able to catch, not even if it`s in the mk1 body!

[sixteen10]

You are not understanding what I am saying.
Yes, your car can beat mk5 gti`s but you are pushing your limit with the 8valve engine! Your car is much more modded than my standard 16v!!

I beat them and my engine is completely standard!

So imagine if I also had to do: Fuel management with standard inlet manifold, vr6 throttle body, 288 degree cams, flowed head, oversized pistons, I would be lookin at about 145kw plus!!

Imagine how I would kill the gti mk5!
And I get 530km on a tank (unleaded)

Just to let you know when you buy a Jap engine, everything like, water pipes, airbox pipe, wiring harness has all been cut!!!!
The only thing there is the throttle body on the inlet manifold!
To lay out money for engine management (gotech), injectors, fuel tank, fuel lines, etc, your lookin at about R4000 and up

Got the sidies for nothing due to a straight swap, sidies are in awesome condition!

I have stax of friends racing at killarney in the gti challenge, one of them being Greig Edwards (winner 2007, class A polo 2.0 16V on 45 sidies), his car gave continous problems with management with some tp100 (throttle sensor) giving s**t!!!!!
He then decided to switch to 45 sidies, upon changing to sidies, straight to the dyno he got more power than management. he had to detune the car!!!!
With his 16v (pushing restricted 147kw) he won the gti challenge last year, due to obviously being an awesome driver but also due to the other guys having s**t with there management!!!!

Main point is that if I had to do the same mods you have done, imagine the power I would have! No 8valve would be able to catch, not even if it`s in the mk1 body!

lol your motor is definitely not stock at all if it's running sidies

secondly the 8v motor is barely even worked yet you continue to say we're pushing the limit? you do know these blocks can go to 2.2 litres?
therefore 2.0i is still reasonably mild! not to mention he has an exhaust and a 272 cam , thats by no means pusing the limits

BTW what does your uber alles 2.0 16v mk2 run over the 400m at the coast?

you also forget that flowing the head on our cars would take them to a mid +-15 up here and around a mid +-14 at the coast! thats on an mp9 throttle body and fueling sorted by a unichip!

so no , our 2.0i 8v's are not more modded than your car.

and speaking of which Shaun built the ENTIRE thing up by himself! and used all the best quality parts...i dont see you posting such a helpful and inspirational topic!


this sounds like a jealous rant more than anything else!

Mac , your build is still the ONE that inspired the car i own today as well as many more on the forum

[Shanedbn]

Viva!!!

[david16v]

Ok, lets go back to pre-school,
my engine is stock standard inside!!!!

Having sidies does not mean I have modded it in any way?
I dont see how you can say that ur 8valve engine has mild mods!
Ok, so bore it to 2.2 and then do your mods, power figures are not going to be impressive!

The max an 8valve hydraulic can push is about 110kw at the fly, my buddy had 2.0 8v conversion, oversized pistons, 38dcd weber, 288 degree cam, would kill mp9 conversion! and alot of other cars! (mk1)

You guys have ur minds set on the 8v, but just remember, the cheaper route would have been to buy an 8v jap engine for R3500, installed 272 or 288, mp9, you would have same power if not more, for less cash layout!

I agree that the 2l 8v hydraulic engine is frickin tough, but to push over 110kw in an 8v you need a solid lifter head, good luck finding that and a solid lifter 288 degree cam!!

enjoy moding ur 8v`s!

[MacMan]

You are not understanding what I am saying.
Yes, your car can beat mk5 gti`s but you are pushing your limit with the 8valve engine! Your car is much more modded than my standard 16v!!

Once again another ignorant statement... where am I pushing the limits? Off-the-shelf 82.5mm Kombi pistons, standard 2.0 crank, original 1.6 rods, original block bored to 82.5mm, standard 2.0 oil pump, standard 210mm flywheel and clutch, standard Polo 1.6i head, injectors, fuel rail, FPR and TB. The only mods I have compared to a Jap import 2E motor are a 276 cam, the bottom end has been balanced and I have a 4-2-1 branch and a free-flow... nowhere near pushing the limits.

And I get 530km on a tank (unleaded)

No offence, but I call BS on that one.

To lay out money for engine management (gotech), injectors, fuel tank, fuel lines, etc, your lookin at about R4000 and up

So that would have taken your bill close to R20k... now you see the main reason I stayed 8V.

Got the sidies for nothing due to a straight swap, sidies are in awesome condition!

I wasn't that lucky, I had to buy everything new.

PS If you had had to buy a decent set of sidies that would have added about R3k to your bill... so R18k.

I have stax of friends racing at killarney in the gti challenge, one of them being Greig Edwards (winner 2007, class A polo 2.0 16V on 45 sidies), his car gave continous problems with management with some tp100 (throttle sensor) giving s**t!!!!!
He then decided to switch to 45 sidies, upon changing to sidies, straight to the dyno he got more power than management. he had to detune the car!!!!
With his 16v (pushing restricted 147kw) he won the gti challenge last year, due to obviously being an awesome driver but also due to the other guys having s**t with there management!!!!

There is no doubt that mod-for-mod a 16V will make more power than an 8V, but for your one example of knowing someone who replaced their EFI system for a set of carbs, I have, with my own hands, replaced 4 carb-fed systems with EFI systems and none of the owners have ever looked back. Remember, a management system is only as good as the person that installed and tuned it.

[sixteen10]

Ok, lets go back to pre-school,
my engine is stock standard inside!!!!

Having sidies does not mean I have modded it in any way?
I dont see how you can say that ur 8valve engine has mild mods!
Ok, so bore it to 2.2 and then do your mods, power figures are not going to be impressive!

The max an 8valve hydraulic can push is about 110kw at the fly, my buddy had 2.0 8v conversion, oversized pistons, 38dcd weber, 288 degree cam, would kill mp9 conversion! and alot of other cars! (mk1)

You have stock internals , but a 2 litre 16v motor come from factory with EFI , you changed that , therefore it IS modified! still wanna go back to pre school?

Having sides means your motor is DEFINITELY modded , heck even a full exhaust is a modification!

i said my 8v has mild mods because it has a cam, chip and exhaust

oh and if you know so much , how do you explain my car in it's current state will make 90+kw ATW at the coast?
then let me flow the head and go further

AGAIN , what does your uber alles 16v run officially over the 400m at killarney?

[MacMan]

Ok, lets go back to pre-school..

Yes, let's...

I dont see how you can say that ur 8valve engine has mild mods!

Cam, branch and free-flow are very mild mods, believe it.

Ok, so bore it to 2.2 and then do your mods, power figures are not going to be impressive!

How would you know? Have you done this conversion?

The max an 8valve hydraulic can push is about 110kw at the fly, my buddy had 2.0 8v conversion, oversized pistons, 38dcd weber, 288 degree cam, would kill mp9 conversion! and alot of other cars! (mk1)

The max an 8V hydraulic motor can push is 110Kw on the fly? Sorry, all I have to say to that is

You guys have ur minds set on the 8v, but just remember, the cheaper route would have been to buy an 8v jap engine for R3500, installed 272 or 288, mp9, you would have same power if not more, for less cash layout!

Yes it probably would have been cheaper to buy an import engine, but that wouldn't have been anywhere near as fun. If you have ever built a motor you would know what I mean... there is just something about putting a motor together and then seeing it take it's first breath.

I agree that the 2l 8v hydraulic engine is frickin tough, but to push over 110kw in an 8v you need a solid lifter head, good luck finding that and a solid lifter 288 degree cam!!

You do know that you get 298 cams for hydraulic heads.

[david16v]

You do know that you get 298 cams for hydraulic heads.

Yes, old polo cup cars first came out with 288 then the later 8valves came out with 298!

If you compare my engine with your engine, yours is much more modded: over-bored for new pistons, cam, fully balanced

I always find it funny how you guys (for example) switch from a 288 to a 298 cam, for about 4kw!!!!!!
It`s all small kw! Not gonna feal the difference!
Reason why I went for a 16v was to jump up to 120kw with sidies! Big power gain and plenty different roots to go for much more power eg: turbo, supercharger, throttles, balancing, flowing, cams.

By the way, when I got my car several years ago it was completely standard. ( mk2 1.8 8v gts )
All these mods were low cost (cool mods when ur a student)
The first mods I did was an exhaust (50mm-powerflow), performance air filter (doesnt make such a diff).
Then decided to change to a G-cam. Again little power gain!
Then decided to change the carb to a 2B2! (You do know you get these kind of carbs?)

It`s all cool when ur a student to do these mods, bang for buck!
But you decide after your done moddin your 8v that you want more power and the only way is 16v or 20v, why do you think most of the drag cars and other cars in the SA modding mags are all 16v or 20v? Also why do you think Robbi Ferolli put two 16v engines in that mk1 he had?

The new 16v engine thats in the mk5 Gti`s are there base models (audi, vw)! The polo gti has the old 110kw 20v engine!
Only car pushing a fair amount of power with the 8v engine is the mk1 1.8R. But thats as far as it goes with the 8V!!?
It is a big outlay for the jap 16v engine plus extras but the moddin scene is HUGE!!!!

But like I said in the beginning, good page for the student or diy guy!

[sixteen10]

You do know that you get 298 cams for hydraulic heads.

Yes, old polo cup cars first came out with 288 then the later 8valves came out with 298!

If you compare my engine with your engine, yours is much more modded: over-bored for new pistons, cam, fully balanced

I always find it funny how you guys (for example) switch from a 288 to a 298 cam, for about 4kw!!!!!!
It`s all small kw! Not gonna feal the difference!
Reason why I went for a 16v was to jump up to 120kw with sidies! Big power gain and plenty different roots to go for much more power eg: turbo, supercharger, throttles, balancing, flowing, cams.

By the way, when I got my car several years ago it was completely standard. ( mk2 1.8 8v gts )
All these mods were low cost (cool mods when ur a student)
The first mods I did was an exhaust (50mm-powerflow), performance air filter (doesnt make such a diff).
Then decided to change to a G-cam. Again little power gain!
Then decided to change the carb to a 2B2! (You do know you get these kind of carbs?)

It`s all cool when ur a student to do these mods, bang for buck!
But you decide after your done moddin your 8v that you want more power and the only way is 16v or 20v, why do you think most of the drag cars and other cars in the SA modding mags are all 16v or 20v? Also why do you think Robbi Ferolli put two 16v engines in that mk1 he had?

The new 16v engine thats in the mk5 Gti`s are there base models (audi, vw)! The polo gti has the old 110kw 20v engine!
Only car pushing a fair amount of power with the 8v engine is the mk1 1.8R. But thats as far as it goes with the 8V!!?
It is a big outlay for the jap 16v engine plus extras but the moddin scene is HUGE!!!!

But like I said in the beginning, good page for the student or diy guy!

dude now you are just rambling

what doesa polo GTI and golf GTI have to do with the discussion of an 8v mk1?

did you never see vic's 8v mk1 on throttles run?

so please dont tell me 8v's are limited!

what about the F&S perforance 8v running in the 13's at altitude before it went 16v...

[Shanedbn]

Mates 8v motor pushes bout 130kw atw...

@sixteen10, check u tonight choina!!!

[Bos]

Haha, yea thats a 2E long block, don't let people fool you
Can check it out tonight!

[david16v]

Ya, that will also be a solid lifter head with BIG cam! Could be a 306 degree cam or higher!
and like I said before, cant mod the 8v anymore! Will become unreliable,
whereas the 16v at 130kw at the wheels will be so comfortable for the engine! and still plenty more mods to be done!

[1.6carbster]

Ya, that will also be a solid lifter head with BIG cam! Could be a 306 degree cam or higher!
and like I said before, cant mod the 8v anymore! Will become unreliable,
whereas the 16v at 130kw at the wheels will be so comfortable for the engine! and still plenty more mods to be done!

Dude, seriously, what the **** is up with you and this whole 8v vs 16v debate?
What are you achieving?
Both are VW's and both are flippen engineering masterpieces for it's time!

So what if an 8v has a limit of 130kw ATW?
You aren't proving anything here in this thread, ALL you are doing is messing up a flippen brilliant DIY thread!
Lay off man

[Jetta2]

The max an 8valve hydraulic can push is about 110kw at the fly,


but to push over 110kw in an 8v you need a solid lifter head,

You are obviously talking of NA power figures here or just generalising?

[david16v]

You are obviously talking of NA power figures here or just generalising?

Definately talkin about NA, not going to even start with the G60!

[Jetta2]

You are obviously talking of NA power figures here or just generalising?

Definately talkin about NA, not going to even start with the G60!

Yeah, don't start.
Don't start a war here in Macmans thread or ALL you posts in this thread will be deleted

[Neuk]

David16v

I have no idea who you are, or what your issue is, but I don't like your attitude or your posts in MacMan's thread You have done nothing but cause trouble in your posts and attacked MacMan and others unnecessarily, and from what I can see was completely unprovoked by anyone If you do not like or agree with his work, then at least say so in a respectful manner, instead of the mindless, childlike attacks and ramblings you have posted Please do yourself a favour and read the rules for posting on this forum and consider this your first warning...



Cheers
Nic

[golfanatics]

What a waste of money!!!!!!!!!
Fuel injected tank - good!
Fuel lines - good!

Motor - waste of money re-doing everything!!!!!!!!

Ive been around Volkswagens and more specifically Golfs since I've bought my first one in 1985 after returning from a two year stint in the old SAW! Thanks to Uncle PW and the danger pay I could buy my first cash en kontant. Fast forward ten years later and I had aTRANSVAAL MOTORSPORT CHAMPION trophy and certificate to hang against the wall.(GTI CHALLENGE GAUTENG). Spend some time hanging out with MK1-fan & SuperSTU, helping a Mr. Bose' to a class A championship. Anyhow thats all history as work came in the way of play. My Dad had a 1989 mk2 for which I build a 2ltr in 1997(similar to MacMan's) I also build one for my Golf Bakkie (112whp on K-jet with g-cam)used to tow the race car, SuperSTU later had the engine in his blue MK1. Anyhow with my Dad now retired I took the Golf from him in exchange for my wife's 2004 Passat TDI. We wanted them to have something save and reliable to use when they come visit. The car has to date covered 437945kms (277000 km's on the 2ltr) dont use any oil and still goes like the stink! Yes the Karoo sun has taken its toll on the paint and interior but all that will be adressed over time. I think the short block 2 ltr is a very good compromise between torque and all out HP and of course reliabity as can be seen form the milage covered by this old lady!

Odo reading:


At the gymkhana: