My bass setup is not performing

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My bass setup is not performing

Post by yeo786 »

Howzit guys
So I've recently installed a 12" Cerwin Vega Mobile DVC ohm 200rms hooked up to a Kicker DX250.1 monoblock.
Ported Sub box, wiring on the voice coils is parallel.
The gain is set on half on the amp.
Now, the problem I am having is the bass being delivered. Once you pass a certain volume level, it's as if the amp/sub has reached its limit and simply won't push more above that volume level. Amp DOES NOT go into protection mode, but I feel as if something is not right. I really expected more thump and thunder from this but alas this hasn't given me what I wanted
Will post a pic of the Box later, the box is not spec'd as i couldn't find enclosure specs for this sub online anywhere

Any suggestions/advice/thoughts? I really thought this would be a good sounding system but the bass sounds like a pair of amplified 6x9s :(
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by yeo786 »

This is in a Citigolf
Here's the ride's thread
http://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php ... 5#p2455350
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by keval »

For the set up you have, dont expect high bass but rather quality.
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by amstel18 »

What headunit are you using?

When the amp receives a bad signal it will also influence the amount of boom.
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by chucker02 »

Could be the sub does not do well in a ported box, have seen it before
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by ULTIM8M-ZN »

chucker02 wrote:Could be the sub does not do well in a ported box, have seen it before
I agree, if the sub has a breathing hole going through the magnet - when you look from the under side of it. It is a air free sub and does not need a ported enclosure.

also as mentioned above, the hardware you using is not for loose, all over the place, kind of bass. but rather the right amount of pressure for listening clarity.

head unit plays a big role in all of this as well, as the volt output would affect the amount of voltage sent to the amp. low volt out = low output from amp to sub. what head unit you using?

I stand to be corrected on the above, but just sharing my knowledge from a DIY point of view as I have done numerous installs.
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by ICE King »

amstel18 wrote:What headunit are you using?

When the amp receives a bad signal it will also influence the amount of boom.
Pretty sure this is your problem , some HU pre-out's dont' have LPF , so make sure your HU does.

Also your amp is 250wrms @ 2ohms and 140wrms @ 4 ohms.

You mentioned it's a DVC ,so if sub is 4 ohms connected in parallel will give you 2 ohms and in series 8 ohms.
Last edited by ICE King on Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by Killerwatt »

Would be worth while to check a few things.
Firstly, check if the amp has a switch to toggle between high and low level inputs. If you are using RCA outputs on your headunit then set this switch to low.

If your amp has a low pass filter set it to approximately 80hz. If you are using the low pass filter on your headunit then switch it off or set it to the highest frequency.
If the amp has a subsonic filter then set it to approximately 30hz.

On the sub, just verify that both voice coils are connected correctly. Make sure the polarity is not crossed on one voice coil and that it is indeed parallel. If the sub has dual 4 ohm voice coils then it will give a load of 2ohms in parallel and 8ohms in series.

A breathing hole does not indicate a free air sub. The hole just aids in cooling the voice coils under high power use. The box does look like its tuned fairly high though. Can you measure the box (width, height and depth) and port (diameter and lenght)? Then i can estimate where the box is tuned and reccomend if its fine. Also can you provide the model number of the sub.
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by smoke.machine »

Also turn off the bass boost on the amp....
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by DP »

According to the specs of the amp: 250 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms
And if u have a DVC 2 ohm sub, so if u connected it in parallel the amp is seeing a 1 ohm load..... which according to the specs of the amp, its not stable at 1 ohm therefore it feels like the amp is reaching its max......
u could eventually blow your amp

Check the sub rating
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by JAZ »

Killerwatt wrote:Would be worth while to check a few things.
Firstly, check if the amp has a switch to toggle between high and low level inputs. If you are using RCA outputs on your headunit then set this switch to low.

If your amp has a low pass filter set it to approximately 80hz. If you are using the low pass filter on your headunit then switch it off or set it to the highest frequency.
If the amp has a subsonic filter then set it to approximately 30hz.

On the sub, just verify that both voice coils are connected correctly. Make sure the polarity is not crossed on one voice coil and that it is indeed parallel. If the sub has dual 4 ohm voice coils then it will give a load of 2ohms in parallel and 8ohms in series.

A breathing hole does not indicate a free air sub. The hole just aids in cooling the voice coils under high power use. The box does look like its tuned fairly high though. Can you measure the box (width, height and depth) and port (diameter and lenght)? Then i can estimate where the box is tuned and reccomend if its fine. Also can you provide the model number of the sub.

Hi Killerwatt with regards to the above, for my own knowledge, why would one set your lpf at such a high curve for the lows?

Secondly with regards to the subsonic filter, why would you recommend it set to 30hz?
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by Killerwatt »

JAZ wrote:
Killerwatt wrote:Would be worth while to check a few things.
Firstly, check if the amp has a switch to toggle between high and low level inputs. If you are using RCA outputs on your headunit then set this switch to low.

If your amp has a low pass filter set it to approximately 80hz. If you are using the low pass filter on your headunit then switch it off or set it to the highest frequency.
If the amp has a subsonic filter then set it to approximately 30hz.

On the sub, just verify that both voice coils are connected correctly. Make sure the polarity is not crossed on one voice coil and that it is indeed parallel. If the sub has dual 4 ohm voice coils then it will give a load of 2ohms in parallel and 8ohms in series.

A breathing hole does not indicate a free air sub. The hole just aids in cooling the voice coils under high power use. The box does look like its tuned fairly high though. Can you measure the box (width, height and depth) and port (diameter and lenght)? Then i can estimate where the box is tuned and reccomend if its fine. Also can you provide the model number of the sub.

Hi Killerwatt with regards to the above, for my own knowledge, why would one set your lpf at such a high curve for the lows?

Secondly with regards to the subsonic filter, why would you recommend it set to 30hz?
JAZ, Those were just staring points for his tuning process.

LPF was just a thumb suck starting point for the sub. But since he has only 6.5" mid-bass drivers, mounted to the door cards, I wouldn't run them much lower than that in any case.

The subsonic was based on estimated box dimensions and the assumption that the port did not bend. I ended up with a tuning freq in the mid 30's. Hence I recommended that freq to be a bit conservative as I do not know the excursion limit on that particular sub.
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by JAZ »

Killerwatt wrote:
JAZ wrote:
Killerwatt wrote:Would be worth while to check a few things.
Firstly, check if the amp has a switch to toggle between high and low level inputs. If you are using RCA outputs on your headunit then set this switch to low.

If your amp has a low pass filter set it to approximately 80hz. If you are using the low pass filter on your headunit then switch it off or set it to the highest frequency.
If the amp has a subsonic filter then set it to approximately 30hz.

On the sub, just verify that both voice coils are connected correctly. Make sure the polarity is not crossed on one voice coil and that it is indeed parallel. If the sub has dual 4 ohm voice coils then it will give a load of 2ohms in parallel and 8ohms in series.

A breathing hole does not indicate a free air sub. The hole just aids in cooling the voice coils under high power use. The box does look like its tuned fairly high though. Can you measure the box (width, height and depth) and port (diameter and lenght)? Then i can estimate where the box is tuned and reccomend if its fine. Also can you provide the model number of the sub.

Hi Killerwatt with regards to the above, for my own knowledge, why would one set your lpf at such a high curve for the lows?

Secondly with regards to the subsonic filter, why would you recommend it set to 30hz?
JAZ, Those were just staring points for his tuning process.

LPF was just a thumb suck starting point for the sub. But since he has only 6.5" mid-bass drivers, mounted to the door cards, I wouldn't run them much lower than that in any case.

The subsonic was based on estimated box dimensions and the assumption that the port did not bend. I ended up with a tuning freq in the mid 30's. Hence I recommended that freq to be a bit conservative as I do not know the excursion limit on that particular sub.

Lol, thought as much bud, was just wondering as to how you came up with that, thought i could learn something new...........
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by yeo786 »

Sorry for the late reply guys. HU is Alpine CDE 183bt.
The sub doesn't exactly have a model number, it just says Vega Mobile 124
Will measure the box later and post here

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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by DP »

Vega Mobile 124
in the 124 the 12 is for the inches and the 4 is the ohm ratings ;D
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by ICE King »

4ohms connected in parallel is 2ohms which your amps pushes 250wrms safely and is plenty for the sub.
You mentioned in your initial post, gain was half - for now , set to 3/4 , you can turn it higher later.

According to the Alpine website , your HU has 6 RCA's out at the back , The last two at the bottom is for the SUB. Connect your RCA's to the bottom two.
From there , there is a sub woofer menu in settings , Set Sub Db to +5db initially.

If it sounds louder already then you have solved your problem, from there it is just fine tuning and too much to explain.

Based on your hardware , that sub should be moving out it's cone. How far does the sub currently "kick" so to say?
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by JAZ »

ICE King wrote:4ohms connected in parallel is 2ohms which your amps pushes 250wrms safely and is plenty for the sub.
You mentioned in your initial post, gain was half - for now , set to 3/4 , you can turn it higher later.

According to the Alpine website , your HU has 6 RCA's out at the back , The last two at the bottom is for the SUB. Connect your RCA's to the bottom two.
From there , there is a sub woofer menu in settings , Set Sub Db to +5db initially.

If it sounds louder already then you have solved your problem, from there it is just fine tuning and too much to explain.

Based on your hardware , that sub should be moving out it's cone. How far does the sub currently "kick" so to say?
The gain setting on any amp is NOT a volume control, it is there to be level matched to the input voltage it receives from the deck..........Have you even heard of clipping??

Please don't do this as you will definitely be sending a clipped signal via your amp to your sub, subwoofer failure will definitely occur.

The deck you have is a good deck, i had one like that a couple months back, it has a lot of settings, firstly set your lpf frequency for the subwoofer channel at 60hz, so it doesn't play any frequencies above that.........'

Secondly set your subwoofer level setting accordingly, also consider this, with my experience with that headunit it only starts to give the amp proper input voltage at volume 22 and upwards, for a 2v output deck it is really great.
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by ICE King »

JAZ wrote:
ICE King wrote:4ohms connected in parallel is 2ohms which your amps pushes 250wrms safely and is plenty for the sub.
You mentioned in your initial post, gain was half - for now , set to 3/4 , you can turn it higher later.

According to the Alpine website , your HU has 6 RCA's out at the back , The last two at the bottom is for the SUB. Connect your RCA's to the bottom two.
From there , there is a sub woofer menu in settings , Set Sub Db to +5db initially.

If it sounds louder already then you have solved your problem, from there it is just fine tuning and too much to explain.

Based on your hardware , that sub should be moving out it's cone. How far does the sub currently "kick" so to say?
The gain setting on any amp is NOT a volume control, it is there to be level matched to the input voltage it receives from the deck..........Have you even heard of clipping??

Please don't do this as you will definitely be sending a clipped signal via your amp to your sub, subwoofer failure will definitely occur.

The deck you have is a good deck, i had one like that a couple months back, it has a lot of settings, firstly set your lpf frequency for the subwoofer channel at 60hz, so it doesn't play any frequencies above that.........'

Secondly set your subwoofer level setting accordingly, also consider this, with my experience with that headunit it only starts to give the amp proper input voltage at volume 22 and upwards, for a 2v output deck it is really great.
If all settings is correct on the HU then get a multi-meter bro , cause you reading brochure ratings , and totally different to real life , I can re assure you about that.

Theory says
(250x2)m2 = 22.4V
HU = 2V
If this is the case gain should be set half = result in real life no bass

Why = cause variables

Just like you buy a car rated at 200kw but find 180kw when you dyno it = totally different environments/fuel etc..... that it was tested in

I'm sure we all have different trouble shooting techniques , even more difficult over a forum and if only I could have a ear there would be able to tell if it's clipping or distorting etc....
Hence my reason for turning the gain is because it sounds as if the amp is getting a weak signal ,could even be damaged pre out's of the HU for all we know.
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by JAZ »

ICE King wrote:
JAZ wrote:
ICE King wrote:4ohms connected in parallel is 2ohms which your amps pushes 250wrms safely and is plenty for the sub.
You mentioned in your initial post, gain was half - for now , set to 3/4 , you can turn it higher later.

According to the Alpine website , your HU has 6 RCA's out at the back , The last two at the bottom is for the SUB. Connect your RCA's to the bottom two.
From there , there is a sub woofer menu in settings , Set Sub Db to +5db initially.

If it sounds louder already then you have solved your problem, from there it is just fine tuning and too much to explain.

Based on your hardware , that sub should be moving out it's cone. How far does the sub currently "kick" so to say?
The gain setting on any amp is NOT a volume control, it is there to be level matched to the input voltage it receives from the deck..........Have you even heard of clipping??

Please don't do this as you will definitely be sending a clipped signal via your amp to your sub, subwoofer failure will definitely occur.

The deck you have is a good deck, i had one like that a couple months back, it has a lot of settings, firstly set your lpf frequency for the subwoofer channel at 60hz, so it doesn't play any frequencies above that.........'

Secondly set your subwoofer level setting accordingly, also consider this, with my experience with that headunit it only starts to give the amp proper input voltage at volume 22 and upwards, for a 2v output deck it is really great.
If all settings is correct on the HU then get a multi-meter bro , cause you reading brochure ratings , and totally different to real life , I can re assure you about that.

Theory says
(250x2)m2 = 22.4V
HU = 2V
If this is the case gain should be set half = result in real life no bass

Why = cause variables

Just like you buy a car rated at 200kw but find 180kw when you dyno it = totally different environments/fuel etc..... that it was tested in

I'm sure we all have different trouble shooting techniques , even more difficult over a forum and if only I could have a ear there would be able to tell if it's clipping or distorting etc....
Hence my reason for turning the gain is because it sounds as if the amp is getting a weak signal ,could even be damaged pre out's of the HU for all we know.
What theory are you talking about?

very easy to get real world ratings, just use a clamp meter and your multimeter and you will get real life rating on the amp.

i would agree that different altitudes will make a difference when it comes to car power and it will also make a difference with regards to SPL measurement in car audio but cant understand how its going to make such a big difference in this guys car compared to being in another car/"environment"??????
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by ICE King »

What I'm saying in the above mentioned case specifically and to answer your question is I believe all setup's are unique.

As you explained gain is matched to the voltage received from the deck as a guide we use this rule of thumb, 2v pre amp's are usually set to 50% ,

The above is assuming the above HU is healthy and set,connected correctly, But lets say tested in real life pushing only 1.5v then we need to check other variables like , something wrong with the RCA's, resistance, path from front to back has interference , inferior quality RCA's etc.....

Understand what I'm saying? so turn up the gain if that solves the problem as long as there no distorting or clipping.
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by JAZ »

ICE King wrote:What I'm saying in the above mentioned case specifically and to answer your question is I believe all setup's are unique.

As you explained gain is matched to the voltage received from the deck as a guide we use this rule of thumb, 2v pre amp's are usually set to 50% ,

The above is assuming the above HU is healthy and set,connected correctly, But lets say tested in real life pushing only 1.5v then we need to check other variables like , something wrong with the RCA's, resistance, path from front to back has interference , inferior quality RCA's etc.....

Understand what I'm saying? so turn up the gain if that solves the problem as long as there no distorting or clipping.
Doesn't make sense to me and i have been at it for years................i'll just agree to disagree.

To the OP i hope you come right with your disappointment............... :hi:
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by ICE King »

:hug: Fair enough.

Yeo786...........Keep us posted bro :thumbup:
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by Beeno »

Try switching between your subwoofer system type (you'll find a subw sys1 and subw sys2 option under your sub control in the menu) - the one system type has a higher output from low volume levels and decreases output past a certain volume level to compensate for speaker configurations which can't handle high output of low frequencies, the other system type is more linear and you'll have proportional bass output across your volume levels.
Your box may also not be tuned correctly, and there are a few other things you'll probably need to tune to get it to sound like you ultimately want it to, but the 9 band EQ and Bass Engine are pretty good in these HU's to compensate for some of it. The pre-out voltage on all 6 RCA's are rated at 2V, so ensure your gain setting is matched on your amps.
Good luck and enjoy.
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Re: My bass setup is not performing

Post by yeo786 »

I apologise for the late reply guys
The amount of 'kick' the sub gives even at low volumes is alot, it looks like its working too hard
I will give the sub setting on the deck a try, I haven't driven my car for 2weeks now, but will tomorrow if everything goes well

Thanks alot for the input guys!
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