VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Details on upcoming VWCSA events...
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Psyko
VWCSA Member
Posts: 102
Registered for: 11 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: 6R 1.6 Polo
Membership No: 1934
Location: JHB

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Psyko »

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. No more Jetta 16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Firestrm_ZA
15. Marzbars
16. SemiColon
17. LYFGP
18. Holiman (3 Stage)
19. Psyko
2011 6R Polo 1.6 Comfortline. Black Magic Pearl
Red Leather interior, Black 18" OZ Racing Replica Wheels, StaticArt Coilovers, Interior LED lights, LED Fogs, R20 Front Bumper, Polo 6C GTI Rear Bumper
User avatar
marzbars
VWCSA Member
Posts: 14353
Registered for: 16 years 2 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: 1988 Corrado 16V
Membership No: 1316
Location: Cape Town

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by marzbars »

aslam325 wrote:
marzbars wrote:Jetta or Golf or Audi? That is the question

I thought the audi was sold
Nope, sale fell through, the guy was so impressed with the 3.0TDI he bought a 2014 Tuareg FML!!!
User avatar
Psycho8v
Lieutenant-General
Posts: 8523
Registered for: 13 years 8 months
Car Make: Toyota
Car Model: Corolla Quest 1.6
Membership No: 1881
Location: Fochville

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Psycho8v »

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. No more Jetta 16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Firestrm_ZA
15. Marzbars
16. SemiColon
17. LYFGP
18. Holiman (3 Stage)
19. Psyko
20. Psycho8v
User avatar
Scratch
Committee Member
Posts: 179
Registered for: 13 years 9 months
Car Make: SEAT & VOLVO
Car Model: CUPRA 1.8T & V40 T5
Membership No: 1580
Location: Hartbeespoort

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Scratch »

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. No more Jetta 16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Firestrm_ZA
15. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville
16. SemiColon
17. LYFGP
18. Holiman (3 Stage)
19. Psyko
20. Marzbars



Gestuur vanaf my iFoon in die Noord Weste.
Current:
>'13 VOLVO V40 T5 R-Design - Polestar Software
>'07 SEAT IBIZA CUPRA 1.8 20VT - Revlimit Stage 2, 76mm DP & 63mm Exhaust done by TMSS Motorsport, GFB DV+, Forge TIP & Boost Pipes, K&N Filter, 4bar FPR, H&R's
- 201.7WHP & 351NM @ FR&R Tuning on 95octane

ImageImageImage
Membership no: 1580
User avatar
Cyle16v
Cadet
Posts: 686
Registered for: 11 years
Car Make: Mazda
Car Model: Boosted 3
Membership No: 1923
Location: Joburg South

VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Cyle16v »

I am definitely coming through for this, have missed a lot because of studies and work. :cry:

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. No more Jetta 16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Firestrm_ZA
15. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville
16. Kibim
17. Sinbad
18. SemiColon
19. LYFGP
20. Holiman (3 Stage)
21. Psyko
22. Marzbars
23. 8valvecyle
24.
...
User avatar
Pikkewyn
noob
Posts: 1454
Registered for: 12 years
Car Make: VW, BMW
Car Model: Polo TSI, Jet VR6, F800GS
Membership No: 1855
Location: Greenstone

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Pikkewyn »

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. Jetta 16v aka Stasiewa16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Firestrm_ZA
15. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville
16. Kibim
17. Sinbad
18. SemiColon
19. LYFGP
20. Holiman (3 Stage)
21. Psyko
22. Marzbars
23. 8valvecyle
24. Colonel Piksteel
25.
Current:
2015 VW Polo TSI Highline
1998 VW Jetta VR6 Exec
2011 BMW F800 GS
Previous:
2014 Ford Fiesta ST
2014 Ford Fiesta ST
2013 VW Polo Vivo GT
2007 SEAT Ibiza Cupra TDI
2008 Peugeot 207 GTi
2006 SEAT Ibiza Cupra 1.8T
1996 VW Caddy 2.0 8V
2002 Mini Cooper S R52
2007 VW CITI 1.4
2003 VW CITI 1.4i
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Pieta
Lieutenant
Posts: 1515
Registered for: 14 years 6 months
Car Make: Audi
Car Model: 04 A4 1.8T 6spd S-Line
Membership No: 1909
Location: Doornpoort PTA

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Pieta »

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. Jetta 16v aka Stasiewa16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Firestrm_ZA
15. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville :lol: :lol: :lol:
16. Kibim
17. Sinbad
18. SemiColon
19. LYFGP
20. Holiman (3 Stage)
21. Psyko
22. Marzbars
23. 8valvecyle
24. Colonel Piksteel
25. Pieta
Pieter "Pieta" Oberholzer

-04 Audi A4 B6 1.8T
BT In process
Biltein + Eibach Sportline
Too much to mention

- 98 Polo 6N 2.0 8v
nd_s
VWCSA Member
Posts: 3454
Registered for: 16 years 6 months
Car Make: Vw
Car Model: 18 Polo Vivo
Membership No: 1691
Location: Jozi

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by nd_s »

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. Jetta 16v aka Stasiewa16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Firestrm_ZA
15. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville :lol: :lol: :lol:
16. Kibim
17. Sinbad
18. SemiColon
19. LYFGP
20. Holiman (3 Stage)
21. Psyko
22. Marzbars
23. 8valvecyle
24. Colonel Piksteel
25. Pieta
26.Nd_s
KOCkEE
Enlisted
Posts: 9
Registered for: 10 years 5 months
Location: Secunda

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by KOCkEE »

Hey guys what's up is this a club event or is anyone welcome.
User avatar
Ageless_ZA
Storm Trooper
Posts: 5695
Registered for: 12 years
Car Make: SEAT
Car Model: LEON CUPRA
Membership No: 1906
Location: East Rand, JHB

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Ageless_ZA »

Anyone is welcome... :hi:

Current Rides:
2008 SEAT Leon Cupra Stage 2
2008 Tiguan 2.0TDi 4Motion (Stage 1/Daily)

Exes:
2008 SEAT Leon FR Stage 3 (Hybrid K04)
2004 Stage 2 MK4 GTi
2007 Stage 2 MK5 Jetta Sportline
2008 Stage 3 SEAT Ibiza Cupra 20vT
2008 BMW 520D M-Sport
2008 Stage 2+ REVO SEAT Leon Cupra
2008 Stage 3 MK5 GTi
2006 Stage 1 Audi B6 1.8T
2001 Stage 1 MK4 TDi
1984 16v MK2 Throttled
1991 Audi 90 Cabriolet
KOCkEE
Enlisted
Posts: 9
Registered for: 10 years 5 months
Location: Secunda

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by KOCkEE »

Thanx Mr Firestrm I try to get all the ST boys also there. Myself included
Devon_Vivo-Sedan
Cadet
Posts: 305
Registered for: 9 years 10 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: polo vivo sedan 1.4 (63kW)
Location: South Africa

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Devon_Vivo-Sedan »

im gonna roll up fo sho

my car is in need of a glazing!!!!

shine shine :hug:
"the sun is setting on big mags, FULL MOON brov!!!"

2014 VW Polo Vivo sedan 1.4 (Black)
1970 Austin Mini Mk3 (Green) "chromed out rollin' on 10s"

ex: 1998 Alfa Romeo 145 Quadrifoglio (Red)
ex: 1988 Nissan Sentra 1.6 SGLI (Grey)
Titus
Captain
Posts: 2665
Registered for: 16 years 6 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Tiguan TSi 4Motion
Membership No: 1189
Location: Canada

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Titus »

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. Jetta 16v aka Stasiewa16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Firestrm_ZA
15. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville
16. Kibim
17. Sinbad
18. SemiColon
19. LYFGP
20. Holiman (3 Stage)
21. Psyko
22. Marzbars
23. 8valvecyle
24. Colonel Piksteel
25. Pieta
26. Nd_s
27. Titus
Current: `18 Tiguan TSI 4motion

x: LSG MK7 GTI DSG
x: Audi A4 B7 1.8T
X:'08 Golf 5 GTI - White Rush
'05 Polo 1.9 TDI Sportline - Blue Boost
'05 Velociti 1.4i
There is a replacement for displacement, its called compressed air :evil:
Devon_Vivo-Sedan
Cadet
Posts: 305
Registered for: 9 years 10 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: polo vivo sedan 1.4 (63kW)
Location: South Africa

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Devon_Vivo-Sedan »

1. Leeb - 3 stage<br />2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)<br />3. G-Spot<br />4. Scratch<br />5. Jetta 16v aka Stasiewa16v<br />6. Barney<br />7. 1.9TurboVW<br />8. Ian F<br />9. Duck<br />10. Scatman<br />11. Uncle Nunda<br />12. Veedubbed<br />13. Gremlin<br />14. Firestrm_ZA<br />15. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville <br />16. Kibim<br />17. Sinbad<br />18. SemiColon<br />19. LYFGP<br />20. Holiman (3 Stage)<br />21. Psyko<br />22. Marzbars<br />23. 8valvecyle<br />24. Colonel Piksteel <br />25. Pieta<br />26. Nd_s<br />27. Titus<br/>28. Devon_Vivo-Sedan

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Tapatalk
"the sun is setting on big mags, FULL MOON brov!!!"

2014 VW Polo Vivo sedan 1.4 (Black)
1970 Austin Mini Mk3 (Green) "chromed out rollin' on 10s"

ex: 1998 Alfa Romeo 145 Quadrifoglio (Red)
ex: 1988 Nissan Sentra 1.6 SGLI (Grey)
Titus
Captain
Posts: 2665
Registered for: 16 years 6 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Tiguan TSi 4Motion
Membership No: 1189
Location: Canada

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Titus »

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. Jetta 16v aka Stasiewa16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Firestrm_ZA
15. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville
16. Kibim
17. Sinbad
18. SemiColon
19. LYFGP
20. Holiman (3 Stage)
21. Psyko
22. Marzbars
23. 8valvecyle
24. Colonel Piksteel
25. Pieta
26. Nd_s
27. Titus
28. Devon_Vivo-Sedan
Current: `18 Tiguan TSI 4motion

x: LSG MK7 GTI DSG
x: Audi A4 B7 1.8T
X:'08 Golf 5 GTI - White Rush
'05 Polo 1.9 TDI Sportline - Blue Boost
'05 Velociti 1.4i
There is a replacement for displacement, its called compressed air :evil:
User avatar
DangerBoy
Captain
Posts: 2839
Registered for: 11 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Mk4 GTi
Membership No: 2002
Location: West Rand

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by DangerBoy »

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. Jetta 16v aka Stasiewa16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Firestrm_ZA
15. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville
16. Kibim
17. Sinbad
18. SemiColon
19. LYFGP
20. Holiman (3 Stage)
21. Psyko
22. Marzbars
23. 8valvecyle
24. Colonel Piksteel
25. Pieta
26. Nd_s
27. Titus
28. Devon_Vivo-Sedan
29. dangerboy
User avatar
Ageless_ZA
Storm Trooper
Posts: 5695
Registered for: 12 years
Car Make: SEAT
Car Model: LEON CUPRA
Membership No: 1906
Location: East Rand, JHB

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Ageless_ZA »

yay danger!

Current Rides:
2008 SEAT Leon Cupra Stage 2
2008 Tiguan 2.0TDi 4Motion (Stage 1/Daily)

Exes:
2008 SEAT Leon FR Stage 3 (Hybrid K04)
2004 Stage 2 MK4 GTi
2007 Stage 2 MK5 Jetta Sportline
2008 Stage 3 SEAT Ibiza Cupra 20vT
2008 BMW 520D M-Sport
2008 Stage 2+ REVO SEAT Leon Cupra
2008 Stage 3 MK5 GTi
2006 Stage 1 Audi B6 1.8T
2001 Stage 1 MK4 TDi
1984 16v MK2 Throttled
1991 Audi 90 Cabriolet
User avatar
DangerBoy
Captain
Posts: 2839
Registered for: 11 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Mk4 GTi
Membership No: 2002
Location: West Rand

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by DangerBoy »

Those fcukers are going to wash the car good....lol

And never met all the "THIRSTENS" on the forum....So looking forward to it...
User avatar
dazza
Field Marshal
Posts: 12139
Registered for: 16 years 3 months
Car Make: VW and VW
Car Model: Amarok and Citi Sport
Membership No: 1327
Location: Roodepoort

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by dazza »

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. Jetta 16v aka Stasiewa16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Firestrm_ZA
15. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville
16. Kibim
17. Sinbad
18. SemiColon
19. LYFGP
20. Holiman (3 Stage)
21. Psyko
22. Marzbars
23. 8valvecyle
24. Colonel Piksteel
25. Pieta
26. Nd_s
27. Titus
28. Devon_Vivo-Sedan
29. dangerboy
30. dazza
Darryn Van Rooyen
Current: 17 Amarok V6 D/C 4Motion H/L Auto
Current: 1987 Citi Sport 1.6
Current: 91 Citi Sport 1.3
Current: 05 Kawasaki 200KDX, 16 KTM 300 EXC
Previous:
14 Amarok BITDI D/C 4Motion H/L Auto
12' MKVI GTI Manual
2009 Audi TT 2.0TFSI S-Tronic
2008 Honda CBX250 Twister - Crashed!
2011 Amarok BiTDI D/C Highline 4Motion
08 RS MKV GTI DSG
09 ZG Ibiza Cupra TDI
06 CW Sportline
01 Citi 1.4i
01 Yamaha YZ125
99 Toyota Tazz
94 Fox 1.8 Sport
User avatar
Ageless_ZA
Storm Trooper
Posts: 5695
Registered for: 12 years
Car Make: SEAT
Car Model: LEON CUPRA
Membership No: 1906
Location: East Rand, JHB

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Ageless_ZA »

I wont be here for it... Flying down to the Cape on the Saturday... only back Sunday evening :(

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. Jetta 16v aka Stasiewa16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville
15. Kibim
16. Sinbad
17. SemiColon
18. LYFGP
19. Holiman (3 Stage)
20. Psyko
21. Marzbars
22. 8valvecyle
23. Colonel Piksteel
24. Pieta
25. Nd_s
26. Titus
27. Devon_Vivo-Sedan
28. dangerboy
30. dazza

Current Rides:
2008 SEAT Leon Cupra Stage 2
2008 Tiguan 2.0TDi 4Motion (Stage 1/Daily)

Exes:
2008 SEAT Leon FR Stage 3 (Hybrid K04)
2004 Stage 2 MK4 GTi
2007 Stage 2 MK5 Jetta Sportline
2008 Stage 3 SEAT Ibiza Cupra 20vT
2008 BMW 520D M-Sport
2008 Stage 2+ REVO SEAT Leon Cupra
2008 Stage 3 MK5 GTi
2006 Stage 1 Audi B6 1.8T
2001 Stage 1 MK4 TDi
1984 16v MK2 Throttled
1991 Audi 90 Cabriolet
User avatar
Psycho8v
Lieutenant-General
Posts: 8523
Registered for: 13 years 8 months
Car Make: Toyota
Car Model: Corolla Quest 1.6
Membership No: 1881
Location: Fochville

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Psycho8v »

1. Leeb - 3 stage
2. Slydub (3 stage, wash & leather)
3. G-Spot
4. Scratch
5. Jetta 16v aka Stasiewa16v
6. Barney
7. 1.9TurboVW
8. Ian F
9. Duck
10. Scatman
11. Uncle Nunda
12. Veedubbed
13. Gremlin
14. Psycho8v aka frikkie van fochville
15. Kibim
16. Sinbad
17. SemiColon
18. LYFGP
19. Holiman (3 Stage)
20. Psyko
21. Marzbars
22. 8valvecyle
23. Colonel Piksteel
24. Pieta
25. Nd_s
26. Titus
27. Devon_Vivo-Sedan
28. dangerboy
29. dazza
User avatar
Ageless_ZA
Storm Trooper
Posts: 5695
Registered for: 12 years
Car Make: SEAT
Car Model: LEON CUPRA
Membership No: 1906
Location: East Rand, JHB

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Ageless_ZA »

Ag dankie Frikkie.... :hug:

Current Rides:
2008 SEAT Leon Cupra Stage 2
2008 Tiguan 2.0TDi 4Motion (Stage 1/Daily)

Exes:
2008 SEAT Leon FR Stage 3 (Hybrid K04)
2004 Stage 2 MK4 GTi
2007 Stage 2 MK5 Jetta Sportline
2008 Stage 3 SEAT Ibiza Cupra 20vT
2008 BMW 520D M-Sport
2008 Stage 2+ REVO SEAT Leon Cupra
2008 Stage 3 MK5 GTi
2006 Stage 1 Audi B6 1.8T
2001 Stage 1 MK4 TDi
1984 16v MK2 Throttled
1991 Audi 90 Cabriolet
User avatar
Psycho8v
Lieutenant-General
Posts: 8523
Registered for: 13 years 8 months
Car Make: Toyota
Car Model: Corolla Quest 1.6
Membership No: 1881
Location: Fochville

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Psycho8v »

Firestrm_ZA wrote:Ag dankie Frikkie.... :hug:
achmed-i-kill-you.jpg
User avatar
Ageless_ZA
Storm Trooper
Posts: 5695
Registered for: 12 years
Car Make: SEAT
Car Model: LEON CUPRA
Membership No: 1906
Location: East Rand, JHB

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Ageless_ZA »

:lol: :lol: :lol: *dead*

Current Rides:
2008 SEAT Leon Cupra Stage 2
2008 Tiguan 2.0TDi 4Motion (Stage 1/Daily)

Exes:
2008 SEAT Leon FR Stage 3 (Hybrid K04)
2004 Stage 2 MK4 GTi
2007 Stage 2 MK5 Jetta Sportline
2008 Stage 3 SEAT Ibiza Cupra 20vT
2008 BMW 520D M-Sport
2008 Stage 2+ REVO SEAT Leon Cupra
2008 Stage 3 MK5 GTi
2006 Stage 1 Audi B6 1.8T
2001 Stage 1 MK4 TDi
1984 16v MK2 Throttled
1991 Audi 90 Cabriolet
User avatar
Kyle
General
Posts: 9429
Registered for: 11 years
Car Make: Porsche
Car Model: Adidas TYP 64
Membership No: 1922
Location: Durban

Re: VWCSA Social Car Wash @ Soapy Rides 29-06-2014

Post by Kyle »

How much for just a boerie roll?
Image
Current:
'03 BMW E46 330i Individual

Ex:
'06 Impreza 2.0R Wagon
'03 S3 8L
'11 A3 1.6TDi
'70 VW Beetle 1600 Twin Port
'00 A4 2.4 V6,
'09 Ibiza Cupra 1.8T,
2013 Vivo Gran Turismo,
E36 M3 Coupe,
E46 320i Individual MSport,
'98 Civic V Tec,
E36 318is Msport,
E30 318i Coupe,
GOLF MK1 GT


Why make things easy for yourself when you can make them incredibly difficult and complicated.
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