CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

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Vellie
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CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by Vellie »

Hi There
I'm new to the club and this is my first post so please be kind...
I recently became the proud owner of a 2011 Volkswagen T5 Caravelle 2.0 BiTD DSG 4Motion. (220K on the clock but in very good condition) What a Wonderful car!!!
Unfortunately after having the pleasure of driving it for as little as 1200km I ran into some major issues....

I live in Kleinmond in the Western Cape a tiny coastal town and Vellie never did any long distance since I've owned her, however after my first fairly long trip is when it all started going terribly wrong.
I was traveling from Kleinmond to Saldanha Bay on the west coast hardly a very long trip (500km round Trip), the car has just been to the VW Agents for a 80 point check as I wanted to make sure my brand new second hand car is in pristine condition.
When descending Sir Lowry’s Pass near Botriver the "LOW OIL LEVEL" warning light came on. I immediately pulled over to investigate and sure enough the dipstick was pretty much dry! I did not have any oil with me and decided to very slowly drive home witch was now only 15km away.
After about 2km due to the downhill the DSG kicked down a gear to use the engine to break (Something new to me as I normally don't break much going down this hill) with the increased RPM the "LOW OIL LEVEL" warning light came on again so I immediately slowed down and had to pull over and switch the car off to clear the alarm. This alarm sounded a total of 3 times before I reached my home.

The next day I had to top up with nearly 6 litres of new oil. (Castrol MAGNATEC 5W-40 A3/B4). Over the next few weeks I kept a close Eye on my oil consumption and found that I was in fact using 1liter of oil every 200km!!!

Long story short the car was now also found overheating when climbing hills.... I’m not sure if this was related to the low oil incident but happened about 5 times. Every time was when the engine was under load climbing a hill. The heat also did not gradually climb, it shot up to max within seconds and then all you see is the steam from the boiling water as it is released from the cooling water bottle.

Had the water system vacuum tested and resulted in no leaks. VW agents then changed the radiator cap, of course this did nothing and my heating problem continued. Had the engine checked as well for cause of the high oil consumption and VW found major loss of compression and the glow plugs was rusty so I knew that the top gasket has gone. As the VW agents don't re build engines’ they quoted me 120K for replacing the engine.

To me this kind of money is ludicrous as I knew I can skim the top and replace the top gasket somewhere else allot cheaper, So I did!

OPENING THE CAN OF WORMS
Think this post is getting a bit long now so I’m simply going to List all that was found wrong Inside:
1) Blown Top Gasket (Already No 2 with no record of engine ever been open) - Replaced
2) Piston Slap - 4 New Pistons

The top was skimmed and the valves and valve beds were serviced - Professionally done by engineering shop.
At this point only the engine top was taken out and the rest of the engine was still in the car.

After putting all back together with a newly imported No.3 Top gasket and 4 new pistons and 40K later the engine was running again, but not for long.

During the test drive the mechanic got a "LOW OIL PRESSURE" alarm. Thinking that the wrong bearings were supplied he opened it all up again (at his own expense this time).

Further Investigation with the whole engine out of the car now top and bottom off (This is as it currently is)
3) Found “scouring” on the bottom end of the sleeves probably from Piston Slap
4) Cracked Crank Shaft
5) Faulty con-rod on crank Journal

At this point I decided to throw in the towel and asked around for a new engine. Got a quote from a VW agent for 87K so I started the process to Re-Finance my house as I don't have that kind of money lying around. Now 2 months later I have the loan money available but the engine is no longer available? New price now 120K for a re-build engine and they want my old engine?

or

75K for all the parts to re-build own engine. (This includes Crankshaft, New Oil Pump, New EGC (Latest D-Type), 1 New con-rod, New Top Gasket, rings bearings ect)
It does however not include the sleeves! These sleeves are plasma coated and very hard, have an engineering shop that is willing to try professionally “hoan” the liners with a stone they use on race car sleeves. However, the engineer seems to think he will need a Diamond tip?

I'm not sure where to go from here?
I’ve looked and there seems to be none of these engines available in South Africa? (Engine Part No. 03L100092 AX)
Even Remtec don't rebuild this model engine?
There are horror stories about the EGC's cooling fins corroding and pieces breaking off scratching the liners witch then cause massive oil consumptions. Mine is already fitted with one with suffix “C” ( Newest Part No. 03L115512 D), this is also a mystery as these engines came out with A’s & B’s so where and when was die “C” get fitted to my engine?

Any advice on where, how or what next will be appreciated?
Rgds
Eric
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dazza
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by dazza »

Wow what a story. It probably would have been better for you had you not kept driving considering the low oil level but anyway who knows if that caused any issues.
My guess is that car had some sort of issue prior to you buying it and was patched as best possible to get it sold.

We have really good VW Indies in JHB that could help you but in your neck of the woods I am not sure. Could you get the car transported to JHB if needed?
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by panic-mechanic »

Your only bet is to find another engine. You cannot rebuild those bottom ends for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Basically nobody locally has the tools to either bore or hone the sleeves.
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by ICE King »

Have you tried contacting Mike's Place in epping, Cape Town? (they give a guarantee , hopefully they stock the motor you looking for or at least can direct you)

Very unfortunate situation to be in and have to agreed with Panic, your best bet is to find another engine, wont be easy.

These Caravelle's don't do particularly well with loads, A friends engine broke under 100k while towing his caravan.
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by dazza »

ICE King wrote: These Caravelle's don't do particularly well with loads, A friends engine broke under 100k while towing his caravan.
How so? They are the same motors as used in the Amarok for the most part is there something specific to the caravelle that is an issue
Darryn Van Rooyen
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by ICE King »

dazza wrote:
ICE King wrote: These Caravelle's don't do particularly well with loads, A friends engine broke under 100k while towing his caravan.
How so? They are the same motors as used in the Amarok for the most part is there something specific to the caravelle that is an issue
Not sure if the motors is exactly the same but it was something to do with excessive cylinder wear , He towed a 1.3 ton caravan with the caravelle loaded, motor seemed to be constantly loaded as it was doing 15l/100km on a flat surface , smooth drive and DSG was a dream though , when it was driving
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by Unobeat »

What an unfortunate situation you find yourself in, especially with a car that you just bought.
THANAS wrote:Mix them together to create Shellstrol, and then mix that with Winstrol to create the ultimate, maximum performance oil for your engine.
panic-mechanic wrote:When I build engines and do stuff like this I do it when there is nobody else around, No distractions, No phone nothing so that you don't forget what you should be doing. It's the little things that make them run right. Anybody can slap a basic bottom end together. that is the easy bit. It's all the little things that makes these builds a success or not.
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by Vellie »

Thanks for all your Input much appreciated. Here’s Another long one!!
I’ve been doing quite a bit of research about this CFCA type engine and its story is quite complicated! VW Germany knows about the problems/design fault they are having with this engine and for a while in Europe a lot of these engines were replaced under Warranty. Engines manufactured in 2010 to 2011 were particularly effected.
For example, in Norway they have reported allot of problems with Volkswagen T5-based Ambulances. This is due to an apparent error made at one of Volkswagen’s production plants. They extensively use the 4motion function as they are very capable in snow and these engines work hard in harsh conditions with lots of very cold starts and fast driving as can be expected from ambulances. It was reported that almost all of them had their engines replaced. Some have had several engine replacements. A Norwegian company named Møller Bil, replaced all the faulty engines of these VW T5 ambulances and the Volkswagen Group in Germany covered this bill? Unfortunately for private owners like myself there are not much hope. Most of these engines are now out of warranty and very strict rules apply to qualify for this “Free” engine replacement even if you are still within warranty. One such qualifying criteria is the oil used throughout the cars live and you must have full flawless service history with VW Agents. This is the link to the Norwegian Ambulance article: https://honestaboutcars.com/tag/cfca/

The EGR cooler of Doom!
This combined with the thin oil used and 20000km service intervals is the root cause of oil consumption on the CFCA Engine! The EGR cooler is made of AlSi10mg(Fe), which is an aluminium alloy. This is prone to corrosion on certain versions of the EGR cooler. Aluminium Hydroxide - Al(OH)3 - is that pale, 'fluffy', powder coating you often see on aluminium parts that have been exposed to the elements - it's just the natural environmental oxidisation of aluminium (you could call it corrosion or rust if you like). Although, it doesn't look very nice, it's 'useful' in that it makes the aluminium practically inert. Importantly, in this context, it's also very soft and non abrasive - around 2.5-3.0 on Mohs scale of hardness and, therefore, unlikely to be the cause of any significant engine damage/wear. However, if the bulletin is suggesting that the Aluminium Hydroxide is getting converted to Aluminium Oxide (Al2O3) - possibly in the high temperature/pressure environment of a combustion chamber - then we have a potential candidate for the cause of engine damage/wear: Aluminium Oxide is also known as Corundum and scores 9 on Mohs hardness scale (Diamond is top with a score of 10) and, for that reason, it is commonly used as an abrasive (for example in the gritty coating of 'sandpaper').

The cooler has a part number 03L 115 512 x, where x is the suffix. We know of suffix D, C, A, and no suffix. The inlet and outlet of the EGR cooler are after the engine air filter, so the air filter will not remove particles from the cooler. The particles get lodged in the piston rings in the engine cylinder bores, and cause wear. This wear leads to oil consumption. Once the damage is done to the bores, then the engine will require replacement. Volkswagen are aware of this issue and they have released 5 versions of this cooler. The newest is a D suffx cooler. Any members with CFCA engines fitted with EGR cooler other than a D should seriously consider replacing theirs!! VW will not tell you about this!!!! They are about R15000 from the Agents!!!! This is the link to the EGR cooler of Doom article:
https://t5-life.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1

These are known problems with the CFCA Engine and yes it is fitted to Amerok, California, Carevelle, Crew Bus and Transporters!!!! VW have made many variants of this engine and in South Africa we only have a few of them.

T5 Excessive Oil Use
I’m under the impression that the previous owner of my beloved Carravell was using thicker oil to fool me and the AA during the roadworthy check-up? You must remember that the EGR cooler is designed to “clean” the exhaust gas and I must say even when I was burning 5liters/1000km my car was not smoking!!! After buying the car I had it serviced and for sure the VW agents replaced whatever was in there with the thin factory speck 5W – 40 Oil. When I then ran it dry I also used Castrol MAGNATEC 5W-40? I can’t say this for certain but this may be a possible cause for the head gasket going? I have read online of users using thicker 10w40 semi synthetic oil and have solved their excessive oil consumption issue? This to me does not sound like a bad idea especially in our hot African Climate? It maybe that the tolerences of the engine don't like fully synthetic but its reported that a semi synthetic oil works just as well... Mention was made of Millers Oils used it in a Landy TD5 it got rid of the standard tractor sound. Speaking of which my Dad, a Farmer actually told me I should have used Jhon Deer Tractor Oil?? Maybe I should have listened?? If the factory says use 5-30 in a diesel you can 100% guarantee oil consumption problems. In diesels it is recommend to use a heavy duty thicker oil. Hey, it's only your engine. I always opt for "engine conserving" instead of "energy conserving" any day of the week. You know how much energy it takes to make and in my case find a new engine? Stay away from magic additives. 99% are snake oil. Most cause problems and unless you have an older high mileage engine +150,000 km it is not recommend using anything but clean oil and filter every 5000 km. Try use synthetic oils they cost more but can go towards 7000 km between changes.
It is also recommended to do a complete oil change every 10000km and not to wait for the regular 20000km intervals! Oil is extremely important to this engine and one cannot take any chances with what’s been going on! Anyway It’s too late for me now but might help someone else reading this thread?

In early times, if you died from the usual problems in Germany they said you died from "Consumption". A good German doctor could see many different causes of death and label it "Death By Consumption. "These days with such modern manufacturing process you would think our German friends across the pond would have figured out that to die of "consumption" today would be a bad thing. It’s Like taking a step back in time.

If anyone have any solid leads on where to find a preferably new replacement engine, please PM Me (Replacement engine, Parts No. 03L100092 AX)

I’m also interested in a base engine, not a short engine. The base engine comes assembled with a head, pistons, cam and crank shafts and the newest (D suffix) EGR.

Thank you for reading.
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by amstel18 »

Sh!tty situation you in mate, but I would definately put most if not all your problems down to using the incorrect oil and poor maintenance.

I had a 2011 model Amarok, and I sold it with 200k on the clock.
It did not use a drop of oil between services. It had the EGR cooler replaced at around 140k.

Catch was it was ALWAYS serviced at the dealer. Not that I am saying that the dealers are the greatest, because they definately aren't. But atleast I am assured they use the proper spec oil.

The newer diesel VAG motors are very sensitive to the oil spec. There is a reason why some of the oils do not carry the VW507 approval. Because they are not suited to the technology. There is lightyears of technology difference between the CFCA BiTurbo motors and that of a Landy TD5 or a John Deere tractor.

I assume that most of the service history of the bus was not from dealers? Also that Magnatec that you put in their isn't VW507 approved. Nor VW505.01 (which was the preceding spec of the diesels before DPF was introduced).

There are not many guys on this forum that have amaroks/ caravelles. Could I suggest you register on the 4x4community forum? Plenty guys on there with Amaroks that should be able to help you out.

PS, I've seen Amaroks with 300k on the clock without any engine work needed. So either you have really bad luck, or its the poor maintenance
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by dazza »

The Amaroks have really only 2 issues that need to be top of mind...Cambelt and EGR system.

Cambelt - My opinion and what I stick to is cambelt replacement every 75000km's.

EGR system - There have been plenty instances of EGR's leaking in places like Australia, all the VW tech's I have asked say it does not seem to come up much here in SA. That being said I would suggest any owner of a 2.0BTID common rail engine keeps an eye out for leaks or just have the thing blanked and get a tune to cater to the EGR delete.

It should be noted that the EGR issue is not only a VW concern, most Ford and Isuzu TDI owners have the same concerns from what I have seen in my investigations.

The 2.0BiTDI motors have been proving themselves and I have been following people mileage quiet a bit and there are ton's of guys with mileage over 200K now with very little issues, there is even a guy with over 400K lurking somewhere that posts on the 4x4community forums.
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Vellie
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by Vellie »

The Caravelle have a full service history and with VW Agents. As discussed only recently did i strip the engine with my local Mechanic in hope to rescue the engine which I thought was only a blown gasket... Think many would have done the same as usually it's a simple fix...
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by SpikePCR »

What was the final diagnosis and what did you fix
Mine started using oil
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Re: CFCA Volkswagen Caravelle (T5) GP biturbo 135kw Non Stop Issues

Post by missioner »

SpikePCR wrote:What was the final diagnosis and what did you fix
Mine started using oil
He probably replaced the engine.

Try Amarok spares in Anderbolt Boksburg for a replacement.
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