Citi Rox 1.4i Cambelt change

[Jacques1397]

Hi guys. Need help please. Changed my Citi's cambelt . Alligned the Crank and the Camshaft pully perfectly. Just wana make sure about timing on theses cars. When I align the mark on the distributor pulley with the height of the crand pulley the TDC mark on the distributor seems way off ? Must it be set to advance or am I missing something ?

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[Jacques1397]

Hi guys. Need help please. Changed my Citi's cambelt . Alligned the Crank and the Camshaft pully perfectly. Just wana make sure about timing on theses cars. When I align the mark on the distributor pulley with the height of the crand pulley the TDC mark on the distributor seems way off ? Must it be set to advance or am I missing something ?

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Got this on the Internet. Assume it has to have about 6 degrees advance ?

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[CitiSport_DL]

There's a mark on the flywheel you can use for it. So TDC is a little notch on the flywheel, but either side of it is a little metal "finger" that stands up. Put the motor on the one that comes before the TDC notch (I think, could be on the other "finger", been a while since I set timing from scratch) and then line everything else up. Easier and more accurate than guessing 6 degrees on the distributor.

For future, the best way to do it is to line everything up on cylinder 1 before changing the belt and then making sure you don't accidentally move the dizzy's pulley. That way everything is already where it needs to be.

[Jacques1397]

Dizzy was accidenlty moved. Need to aling it again. Other 2 spots and the mark on the flywheel match perfect. Just the dizzy left.

Read on another forum the small dot on the Dizzy Pulley must align in a straight line with the notch in the crank pulley ? Is that true ?

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[Jacques1397]

Dizzy was accidenlty moved. Need to aling it again. Other 2 spots and the mark on the flywheel match perfect. Just the dizzy left.

Read on another forum the small dot on the Dizzy Pulley must align in a straight line with the notch in the crank pulley ? Is that true ?

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Manage to get it to start. Seems like I will have ti adjust the Dizzy another tooth or so. She has no power and seen that the rotor is slighlty behind the mark. Need to get it to be 6 degrees btdc at least

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[CitiSport_DL]

Read on another forum the small dot on the Dizzy Pulley must align in a straight line with the notch in the crank pulley ? Is that true ?

Not sure about that to be honest. I usually just pull the dizzy out, move the rotor to plug lead 1, move the oil pump appropriately and then put the dizzy back in. Maybe there's a quicker/better way to do it but I've had no issues with that method.

Manage to get it to start. Seems like I will have ti adjust the Dizzy another tooth or so. She has no power and seen that the rotor is slighlty behind the mark. Need to get it to be 6 degrees btdc at least

Great to hear. Yeah another tooth might help but remember you can fine-tune just by moving the distributor around as well and checking the mark with a timing light (sorry if I sound like I'm trying to dumb it down... just trying to cover all the bases. maybe someone finds this post and doesn't know much and this info helps them ). Ideal RPM is 850-900 IIRC, so get it around there. I generally advance on the dizzy till it pings then pull back till it doesn't.

[panic-mechanic]

you kind of need vcds to lock timing then shoot the ignition timing with a light. You can't mechanically on markings set the distributor timing exactly right. You have to do it with a combination of vcds and a timing light.

[Jacques1397]

Managed to get the timing checked. I dont think the guy set it all 100% - Car runs fine , but has a different sound now at high RPM - Difficult to describe , but same sound as an Cone Filter - Although I have a Flatpad BMC in a box.

I have a Vagcom cable , I will get it to a different mechanic tomorrow morning to check it with a timing light. It might be too advance ? I am not exactly sure.

Thanks for the help so far guys

[Scatman]

Usually if you hear a more pronounced intake noise, your timing is pretty advanced or correct. If you notice that you're having more or a pronounced exhaust note, the timing is probably retarded. If the guy used VCDS to lock the timing, and used the timing light to set the distributor then I wouldn't mess with it unless you feel the car is sluggish, or pinging.

Advanced timing tends to give you more punch in the low-medium rev-range, whereas slightly retarded timing would feel slower, but tends to be faster overall on the road.

[Jacques1397]

Usually if you hear a more pronounced intake noise, your timing is pretty advanced or correct. If you notice that you're having more or a pronounced exhaust note, the timing is probably retarded. If the guy used VCDS to lock the timing, and used the timing light to set the distributor then I wouldn't mess with it unless you feel the car is sluggish, or pinging.

Advanced timing tends to give you more punch in the low-medium rev-range, whereas slightly retarded timing would feel slower, but tends to be faster overall on the road.

Timing fixed. Now she runs like she should. Cannot be happier...

One more noise bothering me. Difficult to describe. When the car is in Neutral and rev it up between 2000 and 3000 rpm there is a funny noise from motor side. Sounds almost like a release bearing on the clutch ? I might be wrong. If parked on a uphile en depressing the clutch slightly in gear and giving it little gas, you can feel it and hear thr noise much more coming from the motor side.

I have no idea what it can be , how would I know if thr clutch is finished. 2008 model 93k on the clock now. Clutch never been replaced before.

I cannot think of anything else that can cause this noise. Started recently before the cambelt change. So doubt its something to do with the belt and cannot be timing anymore

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[Scatman]

It's worthwhile replacing the thrust bearing - you'll need to buy a new gearbox cover from Goldwagen or the like, and the thrust bearing. You release the clutch cable from the arm, and swing it away, allowing you to slide the old thrust bearing out, and insert the new one. It's pretty cheap and easy to do, I'd start there. It's hard to diagnose noises on a forum.

[Jacques1397]

It's worthwhile replacing the thrust bearing - you'll need to buy a new gearbox cover from Goldwagen or the like, and the thrust bearing. You release the clutch cable from the arm, and swing it away, allowing you to slide the old thrust bearing out, and insert the new one. It's pretty cheap and easy to do, I'd start there. It's hard to diagnose noises on a forum.

Worth a try. They are so cheap so why not. Let me give it a go. Thanks Sir

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[Jacques1397]

It's worthwhile replacing the thrust bearing - you'll need to buy a new gearbox cover from Goldwagen or the like, and the thrust bearing. You release the clutch cable from the arm, and swing it away, allowing you to slide the old thrust bearing out, and insert the new one. It's pretty cheap and easy to do, I'd start there. It's hard to diagnose noises on a forum.

Ok. So went and checked again. Definitely not Clutch or gearbox related. When clutch depressed or in neutral noise is the same. Hot or cold. Noise os there.

To rough describe - has the same sound as a misfire. Just not that prominent but can hear it clearly from tappit cover side. Maybe something inside the motor ? Difficult to say ? Oil replaced recenlty as it should. I do it yearly cause of the low mileage and oil filters etc. 93k on the clock currenlty. Another oil service coming soon in 2 - 3 odd months



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[Scatman]

Exhaust leak?

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[Jacques1397]

Exhaust leak?

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You never know. If the exhaust gets hot there is a rattle sound aswell I have been trying to fix. But everytime I think I found it its something else. Sounds like the exhaust touching on something. Might be worth to check the bolts and make sure all is good. Good idea lol. Trying to find all the rattles and squeeks is an endless task

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[Scatman]

I remember on my Citi the heat shield was cracked and it made a strange rattling sound. So I bent it slightly and that fixed the problem

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[Jacques1397]

I remember on my Citi the heat shield was cracked and it made a strange rattling sound. So I bent it slightly and that fixed the problem

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So good news....kind of. Took it to someone thats know MK1s like the back of his hand

Listened to my issue. Checked it out. Turns out its a bearing noise. Still in the early phases. Apparanlty caused by the oil pump that pumps just enough to keep the oil light fro. Going on , but not enough to give oil to the bearings. So have to get the pump and bearings replaced.

Other than that she will be fine. I am still driving her on low rpm and slow speeds. He said that the crank is still perfect so no damaged there. Have to get her done soon

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[Scatman]

I seriously doubt that the oil pump would be giving in after only 93 000km, mine was still pumping oil at the correct pressures after 240 000km. So unless you used some very shitty oil or you ran the car with no air filter for its entire life, I doubt that your bearings are shot. I thrashed my Citi for 240 000km and when i rebuilt the motor at 230 000km the original bearings were pretty much perfect. So I'm not convinced that the sound is because of bearing failure, if it is - it would be extremely strange.

[Jacques1397]

I seriously doubt that the oil pump would be giving in after only 93 000km, mine was still pumping oil at the correct pressures after 240 000km. So unless you used some very shitty oil or you ran the car with no air filter for its entire life, I doubt that your bearings are shot. I thrashed my Citi for 240 000km and when i rebuilt the motor at 230 000km the original bearings were pretty much perfect. So I'm not convinced that the sound is because of bearing failure, if it is - it would be extremely strange.

What I was thinking also. I mean 93k its still basically brand new. 2008 model. Maybe the oil pickup is just dirty or slush ? Worth to drain the oil and remove the sump and see whats going on there ?

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[Scatman]

I seriously doubt that the oil pump would be giving in after only 93 000km, mine was still pumping oil at the correct pressures after 240 000km. So unless you used some very shitty oil or you ran the car with no air filter for its entire life, I doubt that your bearings are shot. I thrashed my Citi for 240 000km and when i rebuilt the motor at 230 000km the original bearings were pretty much perfect. So I'm not convinced that the sound is because of bearing failure, if it is - it would be extremely strange.

What I was thinking also. I mean 93k its still basically brand new. 2008 model. Maybe the oil pickup is just dirty or slush ? Worth to drain the oil and remove the sump and see whats going on there ?

Most definitely

I didn't have much sludge in my sump when i opened the motor the first time at 230 000km, and the head was a nice golden yellow colour. These 8v motors can really take a beating before they start picking up bearing issues, as an example you see these idiots limiting their Citi's while stationary for minutes at a time, and those engines never explode or fail (well I've never heard of it lol).

I'd get a second opinion on the matter or open up the sump as you've said.

[Jacques1397]

I seriously doubt that the oil pump would be giving in after only 93 000km, mine was still pumping oil at the correct pressures after 240 000km. So unless you used some very shitty oil or you ran the car with no air filter for its entire life, I doubt that your bearings are shot. I thrashed my Citi for 240 000km and when i rebuilt the motor at 230 000km the original bearings were pretty much perfect. So I'm not convinced that the sound is because of bearing failure, if it is - it would be extremely strange.

What I was thinking also. I mean 93k its still basically brand new. 2008 model. Maybe the oil pickup is just dirty or slush ? Worth to drain the oil and remove the sump and see whats going on there ?

Most definitely

I didn't have much sludge in my sump when i opened the motor the first time at 230 000km, and the head was a nice golden yellow colour. These 8v motors can really take a beating before they start picking up bearing issues, as an example you see these idiots limiting their Citi's while stationary for minutes at a time, and those engines never explode or fail (well I've never heard of it lol).

I'd get a second opinion on the matter or open up the sump as you've said.

Also hard to believe for me....will never know unless opening it.

It was driven hard , redline everyday since day one. Last 3 years tend to be more caring of it and not pushing her hard. Started with this noise in December. Didnt drive her till now. Oil is cheap. Worth removing the sump and checking whats going on and replace the oil and filters again and see

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[Jacques1397]

Some pics of what I found.....

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[Jacques1397]

Some pics of what I found.....

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Turns out the bolt was loose on the main cap. Lying around in the sump. Lucky no damage.

Fresh oil and filter and she is ready to rumble again

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[panic-mechanic]

Uhm I would kind of worry why that was. Was that engine rebuilt at some stage?

[Jacques1397]

I did. Never rebuilt. Came from VW as is, never opened. Bought it as a Demo model back in 2009