Devils own alcohol injection

[Mcronje08]

Good day can someone please assist me; I have detonation problems with my golf mk1, at this stage i have one of two options I have to run avgas, or I need to swop out my head for another one, which i really do not want to do.
My current head is maxed out, due to the severe head works my compression ratio is way too high for pump gas, Avgas is way too expensive for a daily driver.
My question is can i install a devils own meth/water injection to resolve this issue ?
My car is carburetor can this be done on a carb ?
Even with retarded timing and 98 octane race fuel detenation is still present.

If this can be done on a carb setup where can i have the system fitted ?

Thanks in advance.

[chucker02]

Who modded the head? Did they not calculate the compression ratio? Carb heads are so dirt cheap, I would just buy a standard head and fit it if I were you

[THANAS]

Using WMI won't work well at all with a carb setup. You would in addition to the WMI kit, need either a management system with a MAP sensor or a microcontroller with a MAP sensor in order to activate it, as it needs to activate under vacuum and not boost.

You would then need a distribution block and 4 small nozzles drilled into the intake runners as having a single nozzle after the Carb will not distribute the methanol efficiently enough.

You will also be using a ton of methanol as it will have to be active under any sort of acceleration. In total it will probably cost you around 10k excluding the methanol it uses etc. Just replace the head.

[Mcronje08]

Thank you for the advice, I really do not want to loose the head i have spent more than 9k on the head. I had the head skimmed 0.5mm and my pistons Is 20 thou oversize, according to my knowledge this should still be fine with pump gas. Perhaps the engineering centre removed more than they were told to. In light Of Thanas knowledge on the WMI do I have any other option that will decrease my CR perhaps something more cost effective ?

[chucker02]

Nothing else can be done to decrease compression, either get another head or maybe look into using 2 headgaskets, dont even know if this is an option. What did you have done to the head to cost 9k? Seems very very expensive

[bully]

speaking from experience and a heck of a lot of money down the drain, if you go the wmi route, stay away from devils own.

[bru-tom]

speaking from experience and a heck of a lot of money down the drain, if you go the wmi route, stay away from devils own.

why is this? I have been running devils own kit for about a year now on my NA ABF and it works incredibly well, not a days issue.

Its like saying: "don't use durex, they kak"... maybe they fit a bit loosely on you, but not everyone's schlong is the same

[PapaJo]

Thank you for the advice, I really do not want to loose the head i have spent more than 9k on the head. I had the head skimmed 0.5mm and my pistons Is 20 thou oversize, according to my knowledge this should still be fine with pump gas. Perhaps the engineering centre removed more than they were told to. In light Of Thanas knowledge on the WMI do I have any other option that will decrease my CR perhaps something more cost effective ?

Eishhh, 9k on a 8V head we presume. Give us a breakdown of what has been done to the head apart from the head skim, eg cam, valve sizes. Was this a 1600/1800 head or the 1400 head that has been modified?

You can try and source (maybe special order) a thicker head gasket to lower compression.

What size bore is the pistons (actual bore not 20thou) and stroke and is it a short block or long block?

You cannot base the compression ratio on knowledge, it has to be calculated. Stroke, bore size, head CC's, cam duration and valve sizes all play a role in the calculation.

[THANAS]

speaking from experience and a heck of a lot of money down the drain, if you go the wmi route, stay away from devils own.

why is this? I have been running devils own kit for about a year now on my NA ABF and it works incredibly well, not a days issue.

Its like saying: "don't use durex, they kak"... maybe they fit a bit loosely on you, but not everyone's schlong is the same

Bruuu.

I think he's likely referring to the DO Progressive MAP based controller which has had a number of failures, some of which were catastrophic. The DO hardware, pump etc is fine.

[bru-tom]

speaking from experience and a heck of a lot of money down the drain, if you go the wmi route, stay away from devils own.

why is this? I have been running devils own kit for about a year now on my NA ABF and it works incredibly well, not a days issue.

Its like saying: "don't use durex, they kak"... maybe they fit a bit loosely on you, but not everyone's schlong is the same

Bruuu.

I think he's likely referring to the DO Progressive MAP based controller which has had a number of failures, some of which were catastrophic. The DO hardware, pump etc is fine.

Lol, he wasn't specific


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[bully]

speaking from experience and a heck of a lot of money down the drain, if you go the wmi route, stay away from devils own.

why is this? I have been running devils own kit for about a year now on my NA ABF and it works incredibly well, not a days issue.

funny guy eh.

Its like saying: "I was never murdered by a serial killer, so serial killers are amazing people"

DO has ruined a lot of motors. The controllers are really cheaply made and not reliable at all. The way the kit is wired was thought up by a 3 year old who spent 15 mins on wikipedia and thought he was an electrical engineer.

Replacing a 130k motor on a brand new car is not fun

Just some friendly advice, use it, don't use it.

[bru-tom]

speaking from experience and a heck of a lot of money down the drain, if you go the wmi route, stay away from devils own.

why is this? I have been running devils own kit for about a year now on my NA ABF and it works incredibly well, not a days issue.

funny guy eh.

Its like saying: "I was never murdered by a serial killer, so serial killers are amazing people"

DO has ruined a lot of motors. The controllers are really cheaply made and not reliable at all. The way the kit is wired was thought up by a 3 year old who spent 15 mins on wikipedia and thought he was an electrical engineer.

Replacing a 130k motor on a brand new car is not fun

Just some friendly advice, use it, don't use it.

Holy moly. That's ridiculous. I feel bad for supporting them now. Luckily I am not using their progressive system.

How are they handling their eff-up?


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[Pynoxim]

Only the DO Progressive Controller is an issue, the pump, lines, wiring etc is all fine, just buy a stage 1 kit and use that basic boost operated switch and fit your own in-line on/off switch for peace of mind.

[bully]

How are they handling their eff-up?

LOL. You've got jokes hey

They're not handling it. They deny everything even after I had the controller inspected and got confirmation that it was the cause of the failure. The dealer in SA has given me the worst customer service I have ever gotten and I have a contract with Telkom (so that's saying something).

After I had my failure, a bunch of guys contacted me telling me how they also had issues. The dealer himself admitted to me that the controllers are useless yet all of them keep quiet about it. I don't believe in that and if I can save someone the headache I went through by sharing what happened to me, I'm happy.

If you want to do WMI, spend the extra few grand and get something that has proper R&D behind it with no shortcuts. AEM, snow, coolingmist etc. It is definitely worth the little extra (although I have heard of high end systems also failing, it is a lot less likely).

[bru-tom]

How are they handling their eff-up?

LOL. You've got jokes hey

They're not handling it. They deny everything even after I had the controller inspected and got confirmation that it was the cause of the failure. The dealer in SA has given me the worst customer service I have ever gotten and I have a contract with Telkom (so that's saying something).

After I had my failure, a bunch of guys contacted me telling me how they also had issues. The dealer himself admitted to me that the controllers are useless yet all of them keep quiet about it. I don't believe in that and if I can save someone the headache I went through by sharing what happened to me, I'm happy.

If you want to do WMI, spend the extra few grand and get something that has proper R&D behind it with no shortcuts. AEM, snow, coolingmist etc. It is definitely worth the little extra (although I have heard of high end systems also failing, it is a lot less likely).

What about getting hold of DO international? There must be a way to get justice??




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[Mcronje08]

Okay well here is the breakdown of what has been done on the head : the head is a 1.8 8v head the head has been ported and polished on both intake and exhaust ports,
I have fitted an *** rev kit , big valve conversion has been done ; the valves in the head are 4mm bigger than standard for the intake and 2mm larger than standard for the exhaust valves.
I have a 288 billet cam fitted with vernier pulley,
The lifters are coated with an anti friction coating and then the head has been skimmed at least 1.5 mm.
The head is maxed out, unfortunately due to the engineering centres miscalculation, afgas Is the only fuel fit for the car at this stage.
Afgas is hard to find and really expensive in relation to
95 and my cars fuel consumption is nowhere economical.

[Mcronje08]

I think a custom cut head gasket would be a good bet in my situation.
Thank you all for the advice much appreciated.

[Donavan]

Try using 2 head gaskets first before you go and have a custom one made.

mac?

[PapaJo]

1,5mm skim is way too much. Your initial post said 0,5mm skim.

A std head measures in the order of 133,5mm from head gasket face to top where tappet cover gasket fit.

Agree with Donavan to try with two headgaskets, but that will most likely drop your compression ratio a bit below the original std compression ratio.

Depending on the make head gasket you have and one you will use as addon, the compressed head fasket thickness would be +_ 1,6mm thick.

Best is to check what make gasket you have on now and measure its thickness now after it was compressed (torqued down) and then we can advise.

I would measure the current head gasket and then work out the amount the new thicker head gasket needs to be thicker than the current one to make it work. My rough calculation with the info you have supplied is that you will need an custom head gasket that is atleast 2,5 mm when compressed.

[Mcronje08]

Yes the engineering shop was told to remove 0.5mm somehow they ended up removing around 1.5 mm.
Is a custom cut gasket not better ?
I have heard that 2 gaskets weakens the seal and results in premature failure.

[Mcronje08]

I am thinking of running a 5mm thick copper gasket would that size be sufficient before compression, the current gasket is a Victor reinz not sure how thick it is after it has been compressed.

[THANAS]

5 mm copper gasket? Are you looking to turbocharge? That will drop your compression WAY down. I would go with PapaJos recommendation.

[Mcronje08]

I am not going to turbocharge.
The compression ratio is close to 12:0:1
I'm looking to drop to around 10:8:1 that should allow me to run 95 without a problem

[PapaJo]

I am not going to turbocharge.
The compression ratio is close to 12:0:1
I'm looking to drop to around 10:8:1 that should allow me to run 95 without a problem

About 12,2:1

I worked it out that with a custom head gasket being compressed to 2,6mm you can get a compression ratio of 10.98:1. Unknown values that I have estimated is 10cc for dish in piston, 26cc for head cc's.

10,8:1 and 11:1 compression will put you on the limit of running 95 octane. You may need to use additives (octane booster) or slight retarded timing.

Yes a custom head gasket is better than 2 gaskets ontop of each other.

[PapaJo]

I am thinking of running a 5mm thick copper gasket would that size be sufficient before compression, the current gasket is a Victor reinz not sure how thick it is after it has been compressed.

1,6mm on compressed victor reinz.

5mm copper gasket......no way!!!

Stay away from copper gaskets!! They don't last on high compression.