Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

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Turbocaddy
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Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by Turbocaddy »

Hi peepz.. I need some info!

I am rebuilding my 2E motor and need the professionals opinions on what I am doing....

Motor details from bottom to top:
These parts I already have:
Forged 2E crank
King race mains and big ends
King race thrust whashers
Scat forged conrods(800hp rated)
Wiseco forged pistons 9:1 compression ration

These parts I am currently buying:
Vw Xflow head kit for turbo application(*** build)
Stainless steel valve set- 40mm inlet and 33.4mm exhaust
Solid lifters and shims
Custom camshaft 276 exhaust and 268 inlet and 112 L/C
Head is also fully gasflowed


The idea is to run 2 bar.. now I need to know exactly what I need to do further...
what compresion must I get to run 2 bar
What injectors I need
What throttles would be best
All the nitty gritty things please guys!
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PapaJo
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Re: Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by PapaJo »

If your Wiseco pistons is 9:1 compression ratio for 8v, you are good to go.

What is your target KW you are aiming for as that will determine turbo sizing and injector sizing?

To run 2 bar you will need a decent spec turbo, proper sized fuel injectors (650-750cc probably depending on your KW target) and good spark, a good tune and a tuner that knows what he is doing or your motor goes kaboom!

What head gasket are you planning to use? Cometic or Victor Reinz would be the better ones to use.

You didn't mention boost control in your post. You will need a waste gate to control your boost coupled to either a manual boost controller or a more advanced electronic boost controller.

Single throttle 65mm to 76mm is the most commonly used sizes. Throttles will work too, but is more tricky on a turbo application.

I'm not too keen on *** heads and builds, but that is just my preference. BTW a 8V xflow head uses a single camshaft, so you probably have a split duration 8V camshaft or are you actually talking of a 16V head with two camshafts and call that a xflow head? 40mm and 33,5mm valves lead me to think this is a 8V head you are talking about. Clarify please?

For what you want the better option would be to use a 60-2 management system for accurate and timing and control of things. Much better than a distributor triggered system.

You need deep pockets full of money when you build a turbo motor as all these parts telly up to a considerable amount quickly.

That's my 2c.
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panic-mechanic
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Re: Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by panic-mechanic »

1) why 8v?
2) i personally don't use anything supplied by ***. own preference. Especially camshaft.
3) why solid lifter.? Planning to rev it past 8000? In that case maybe look at better retainers.
4) what CR you can consider ideal is determined by the fuel used. 9:1 on 2 bar with 95 is unlikely. Maybe consider E85
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Turbocaddy
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Re: Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by Turbocaddy »

@ PapaJo
the head is 8v with split duration cam;
I do have a wastegate on the system
The turbo is a T3-T4( not sure what the exact specs are.. I will look tomorow quickly )
What 60-2 management is best for the application and where can I get the intake system that would be BEST for running high boost?...
I am planning to get 750cc injectors or bigger if I can find..


@Panic-mechanic
The plan was to go to 8500RPM.. where can I find beter retainers?
I wanted to phone the guys still from redline engineering in cape town to find out about head gaskets as I want to get the CR to round about 8:1..
What do you guys suggest?...

The main idea is to go past 200kw on the wheels..
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PapaJo
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Re: Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by PapaJo »

You better check up on the T3/T4 turbo spec. If it is a Chinese turbo, you are most likely going to get 1,3Bar max from it with some lag down in the RPM range. A/R ratio on the turbo play a role too. 1,3Bar on a 8V and 550 - 650cc injectors may or may not get you there to your 200wkw, but there are many other components in the mix that need to work together to achieve that, so the answer to if it is reachable all depends on all the other components you put in your build especially your turbo and injector sizes. rods and piston wise it seems fine.

8:1 is pushing a bit low on the compression ratio and the lower the compression ratio, the more lag you will have on larger turbos due to the low compression that need to build boost first.

Asked you before and ask again now, the Wiseco pistons are 9:1 CR and are they 8V or 16V pistons. If they are 8V pistons, leave the CR as 9:1, no need to try and drop to 8:1. The 9:1 CR will help with spool up on a Chinese turbo and reduce lag a bit. The fueling and timing need to be right for CR to work. Higher CR are used on some motors and properly tuned and running fine. You will need to look into octane booster or additives as you will not get it to your 200wkw on pump fuel.

Google Supertech Performance and check out their site if you want proper valve springs / retainers.

You will need to do some special magic to the oil supply on this motor if you want it to last when rev'ing it to 8500RPM on a continuous basis. Motor will most certainly not last. 7000-7500RPM you can still use the standard valve springs and just get titanium retainers and top collars.

The cam durations you listed will drop of and not make any additional power above 7000RPM. The trick is to build a turbo car that is quick of the line with good traction and has a good power band to pull it through to redline, not a big turbo and high rev's. Most races are won with a good pull away to create the gap on your competitor and then pulling away from him with more power.

You can use any of the 60-2 management systems. The crux lies with your tuner and if you have a tuner that is comfortable and know how to tune the system you choose, go for that system. The debate about which system is best is endless and many posts on the forum. People have their preferences due to knowing the system, have it installed, running without issues and has a good tuner.
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panic-mechanic
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Re: Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by panic-mechanic »

You will have to get an intake manifold built or import at huge cost from overseas.
Stock plastic unit will not stand the boost.
But I don't understand all this trouble for 200kw.
The recipe is very easy.
1. Stock 2l long block bottom end
2.stock 16 head with it's stock manifold
3. Pocket pistons slighty for intake valve(can be done in place don't even have to strip the bottom end)
4 add turbo of choice
5. 480 to 550 cc injectors
6. Management

1 bar with 95. 200 kw done.
Much cheaper.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'09 Touareg 3l TDI
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'05 Touareg v10

Perfect Power dealer. I do dyno tuning.
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Re: Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by PapaJo »

panic-mechanic wrote:You will have to get an intake manifold built or import at huge cost from overseas.
Stock plastic unit will not stand the boost.
But I don't understand all this trouble for 200kw.
The recipe is very easy.
1. Stock 2l long block bottom end
2.stock 16 head with it's stock manifold
3. Pocket pistons slighty for intake valve(can be done in place don't even have to strip the bottom end)
4 add turbo of choice
5. 480 to 550 cc injectors
6. Management

1 bar with 95. 200 kw done.
Much cheaper.
:iagree:
Turbocaddy
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Re: Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by Turbocaddy »

Ok so I checked the turbo.. on the exhaust side it says .48 A/R and on the compressor side .50 A/R...
The plan on the long term is to go for the stars thats why I am building the bottom part so strong..
I will switch to 16v soon.. My father wanted to go 8v route.. i wanted to go 16v from the get go.. so for now its 8v....

The pistons is for 8v 9/1 CR

Who can build me a strong intake and exhaust manifold and where can I get the head gasket in jhb/pta?

I will get big injectors by mr. Turbo and a new management..
I will also get a GT series turbo soon..
Turbocaddy
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Re: Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by Turbocaddy »

And I will switch to coil pack.. what coil pack will be best with whatever management?
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PapaJo
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Re: Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by PapaJo »

Have answered you before on management systems in an earlier post.

When you use a management system with wasted spark, you need to get individual coils or a coil pack like the VW 4 post coil, unless the management system has the option to select between wasted spark or single coil. BEFORE you buy decide what you want to ensure that management system and coil pack/ coils can work together or you will be wasting money.

Whether you want to use the distributor or 60-2 trigger is another decision you need to make.

In your case the 2E motor uses a distributor. Plan so that you can use the same management system again once you go 16V, provided you use the 16V 4 window distributor on the 16V head and re-tune. Your ignition trigger is a HALL type in the 2E distributor and you need to get a management system that takes the HALL sensor trigger signal for ignition.

Which tuner in your area is installing and tuning which system? Go with your preferred tuner, ask him about the system he uses and / or are comfortable with. I know CCDyno tunes Spitronics (Melkman0071 here on the forum has one on his Caddy with 2E motor and stays in Witbank too) and CCDyno will probably tune Dicktator too. Those two would be my preferred systems, to the mere fact that I have had a few good encounters with them and know guys using them without any issues. A management system is only as good as the tuner. I would recommend any one of them in standard form using the distributor HALL trigger for timing.

The choice is yours to decide which one and what you want. Make a list of what you want and need to get it running.
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Re: Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by THANAS »

Between Papajo and Panic's responses you have all the info you need. Go forth and boost.
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PapaJo
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Re: Vw 2E turbo motor rebuild help needed

Post by PapaJo »

Turbocaddy wrote:Ok so I checked the turbo.. on the exhaust side it says .48 A/R and on the compressor side .50 A/R...
The plan on the long term is to go for the stars thats why I am building the bottom part so strong..
I will switch to 16v soon.. My father wanted to go 8v route.. i wanted to go 16v from the get go.. so for now its 8v....

The pistons is for 8v 9/1 CR

Who can build me a strong intake and exhaust manifold and where can I get the head gasket in jhb/pta?

I will get big injectors by mr. Turbo and a new management..
I will also get a GT series turbo soon..
You will not be able to switch to 16V WITHOUT changing pistons again. The 8V 9:1 turbo pistons will drop the compression ratio way too low when you remove the 8V head and fit a 16V head. The 16V head has a lager combustion chamber. 8V head is +-32cc combustion chamber and a 16V 46cc. That 14cc larger combustion chamber is more than enough to drop the standard compression ration on the 2E to the correct compression ratio for turbo when you fit a 16V head and only have to cut the clearances for inlet valves as Panic mentioned. THIS IS A BULLETPROOF AND PROVEN FORMULA used by many guys on the forum.
panic-mechanic wrote:*snip*

The recipe is very easy.
1. Stock 2l long block bottom end
2.stock 16 head with it's stock manifold
3. Pocket pistons slighty for intake valve(can be done in place don't even have to strip the bottom end)
4 add turbo of choice
5. 480 to 550 cc injectors
6. Management

1 bar with 95. 200 kw done.
Much cheaper
.
My suggestion is, sell the 8V head and parts and turbo pistons and use that money to buy a complete 2L 16V head with intake and the items as Panic has listed above. You might even have some change left from selling.

The .48 exhaust housing will give you early spool up, but will rob you of power due to high back pressure higher up in the RPM range. You will most likely not reach your goal of 200 wkw with the .48 exhaust housing when used on the 8V.

Smaller exhaust housing = faster spool up, more low down torque, more back pressure upstream of turbo, higher exhaust manifold temperatures and lots of wheel spin and larger exhaust housing like .63 gives you way more power up top end with some lag lower down in the RPM range that helps you to get off the line, less back pressure upstream of turbo and cooler exhaust manifold temperatures. For 16V you will need a .63 exhaust housing. Depending on the current exhaust wheel size installed in the .48 housing, you can get a '63 replacement housing, all depends where you bought the turbo from and if they have different A/R housings.

Don't know shops in your area that can make you an intake and exhaust manifold for the 8V, Mr Turbo advertise a 16V T3 exhaust manifold. I have bought one from them, and still unused as I have changed to a different turbo setup. If you have decided which way you are going, give me a PM and we can talk.
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