What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Ashveer03
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Ashveer03 »

To be honest, i never saw a pd tdi run with "off" timing, maybe a few degrees on the adjustable cam pulley only which didnt cause any vibration. Synchro angle can be viewed on vcds.

White smoke is generally raw/unburnt fuel or coolant. Also, do not mistaken steam caused by condensation for white smoke.
Blue smoke is oil being burnt.
In my opinion none of them are acceptable because its indicating a problem.

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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by MarshallGTi »

Ashveer03 wrote:
ThatBloke wrote:What is a Audi Avant 2004 model 1.9 tdi 6 speed 96KW like?
I'm going to see it tomorrow, everything checks out thus far but the owner says it has slight engine vibration at idle but that the vibration goes away at speed, he says its the one engine mounting needs replacing - does that sound about right?
Could an engine vibration at idle perhaps be something more serious?

Is there anything in general I should be looking out for when I go view it?
At start there should be at most a small amount of black smoke and no white or blue smoke otherwise?

Does anyone perhaps know a mechanic near Epping in Capetown that I can take the vehicle to for a quick check-up and confirmation on the engine mounting?

I got a lift from George to CT tomorrow morning and I'm driving down specially to have a look at it!!
If im not mistaken the 96kw 6speed is the "S-Line" with an AVF engine aswell.

Mountings are really not a common thing on this car, i have worked on a good few audi tdis with over 200k kms and never ever had a mounting issue. Its probably a dual mass flywheel vibration/rattle, which should fade off with the clutch pressed in as explained in the earlier posts. It could be a number of other things aswell, a misfire or maybe even a bashed up exhaust for example, very difficult "guessing".

A broken mounting should be quite noticeable though, if the engine has alot of movement when being revved up a little, or while driving - during gear changes..

Blue or white smoke is not acceptable.

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my 2c, at the dealerships we replaced quite a few mountings on the B6 shape, and a decent number on the B7 as well. if its never had the newer type mounting put in theres a good chance they're gone. they dont completely break so you dont see the engine sag or anything, they're oil filled mountings and one (usually left side iirc) has a sensor on it and if its leaked some or most of the fluid out it can cause a rough idle. Easy to check from under the car, if the mounting has traces of a purple kinda oil then it needs replacing.
It is an ingenius solution to a problem that should have never existed in the 1st place...

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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Jueshen »

when an engine mount goes you will really feel it.
there is a pneumatic engine mount, that stiffens up when vibration is most (usually when shutting off)
and then is not so stiff under normal condidtions
but when this mount fails or has an electric fault it fails in the stiff position so you font really need to replace it.
its an awesome drive, enough power and i love the consumption (have to drive it well to average in the low 4's) other than that 5's
mine is 100% stock and i plan on keeping it that way
it had FSH, serviced every 7.5 k which is overkill and mileage was 150k, injectors were replaced and gearbox replaced under warranty just before i purchased it, and when i read the reasons the repair shop gave to replace the stuff i laughed, i would have just flushed the gearbox and used some diesel purge, but hey i scored..
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by ThatBloke »

Sounds like a score of a vehicle Jueshen. I went and looked at the vehicle in Ct today, total dog, amazing how people can lie through their their teeth, interior trashed and blue smoke galore, everything off kilter and worn, car for all intents and purposes is total write off. Sold as being in great condition, seller said no smoke at all and interior excellent. Farking hell!!

Buying 2hnd is always a bit of a crapshot, par for the course, I just have to carry on looking until the right one crops up.
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Ashveer03 »

ThatBloke wrote:Sounds like a score of a vehicle Jueshen. I went and looked at the vehicle in Ct today, total dog, amazing how people can lie through their their teeth, interior trashed and blue smoke galore, everything off kilter and worn, car for all intents and purposes is total write off. Sold as being in great condition, seller said no smoke at all and interior excellent. Farking hell!!

Buying 2hnd is always a bit of a crapshot, par for the course, I just have to carry on looking until the right one crops up.
The stuff people say and do to get a vehicle sold is always shocking

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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by ThatBloke »

I'm in Ct hunting for my Avant, there's a 2006 model, assuming B7, 2.0Tdi.

What is that engine like, is it basically a 1.9tdi with slightly oversized pistons?
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by MarshallGTi »

1.9 was PD injectors, 2.0 was common-rail
It is an ingenius solution to a problem that should have never existed in the 1st place...

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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by VGTI »

MarshallGTi wrote:1.9 was PD injectors, 2.0 was common-rail
Have to disagree B7 had 2.0 BKE engine with PD injectors.... Only B8 and later had common rail.

2.0 16v vs 1.9 8v
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by ThatBloke »

VGTI wrote:
MarshallGTi wrote:1.9 was PD injectors, 2.0 was common-rail
Have to disagree B7 had 2.0 BKE engine with PD injectors.... Only B8 and later had common rail.

2.0 16v vs 1.9 8v
So probably in terms of reliability and maintenance costs the 1.9 is a better choice than the 2.0?
Apart from what I'm assuming is a moderate power increase is there any advantage to having the 2.0 over the 1.9?
Especially considering I'm more interested in reliability and cost of ownership.
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by panic-mechanic »

Don't think there is a big cost difference between the two.
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Neuk »

MarshallGTi wrote:1.9 was PD injectors, 2.0 was common-rail
Nope...

1.9 VE in the MkIV platform was common rail, 1.9 8v and 2.0 16v in the MkV platform were PD and newer 2.0 16v engines are common rail.
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by panic-mechanic »

VE is no rail. It has a pump to injector pipe setup.
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Neuk »

panic-mechanic wrote:VE is no rail. It has a pump to injector pipe setup.
So similar to PD but no PD injector?
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Ashveer03 »

Neuk wrote:
panic-mechanic wrote:VE is no rail. It has a pump to injector pipe setup.
So similar to PD but no PD injector?
I wouldnt say similar to pd, Ve type injectors look similar to glowplugs with a steel fuel line going to the top of it, and it also fits on the outside of the engine

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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Neuk »

Ashveer03 wrote:
Neuk wrote:
panic-mechanic wrote:VE is no rail. It has a pump to injector pipe setup.
So similar to PD but no PD injector?
I wouldnt say similar to pd, Ve type injectors look similar to glowplugs with a steel fuel line going to the top of it, and it also fits on the outside of the engine

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Read what panic and I were discussing, the fuel delivery system works similar to a PD engine with a central pump but there are no PD injectors and the central pump handles fuel injection timing.
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Ashveer03 »

I did read that, and again - i wouldnt say they are similar.
Infact its completely different.

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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Neuk »

Ashveer03 wrote:I did read that, and again - i wouldnt say they are similar.
Infact its completely different.

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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by panic-mechanic »

Ok so I can see we have to revert to show and tell.

1) vw VE engine . Fuel pump clearly visible in the foreground Pipes from there to each injector thus there is no fuel 'RAIL; as such
It uses either suction of the pump to pull from the tank. The amount of fuel injected is controlled by how much fuel the pump allows out.
Injection pressure around 160 to 200 bar. No electronic connection visible on the injectors except on no3 which is a needle lift sensor. Injectors are visible outside the engine.

Image

2) PD engine. No rail no fuel pipe nothing of the high pressure fueling system visible outside of the engine. It uses a unit injector which is pressed by the camshaft hence it is all contained under the tappet cover. there is a lift pump which provides the fuel to a tandem pump ( one half does vacuum and one half does pressure. From the tandem pump(supplies around 500 bar) it goes to the injector where it gets compressed to final injection pressure(just under 2000 bar). Fuelling quantity is electronically controlled by a timed spray. No injector is visible nor electronic connector.

Image

3) Common rail. there is a fuel rail. similar to petrol fuel injection engines. It is externally visible. On some of them more clearly than others. Then a pipe to each injector from the 'RAIL' . Fuel is supplied by a lift pump in the tank to centrally driven high pressure pump and fuelling is also electronically controlled via a PIEZO injector. Rail pressure is in the vicinity of 1600 to 1800 BAR. Electronic connection to each injector similar to petrol fuel injection

Image
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Ashveer03 »

100% Panic

Back to topic..

[/quote]So probably in terms of reliability and maintenance costs the 1.9 is a better choice than the 2.0?
Apart from what I'm assuming is a moderate power increase is there any advantage to having the 2.0 over the 1.9?
Especially considering I'm more interested in reliability and cost of ownership.[/quote]

Havnt worked on many 2.0 PD tdis, but there are alot of differences between the 2.0 and 1.9..
From what i know, the 2.0 came in PD140(103kw) and PD170(125kw). So there is some extra power on the 2.0.

Im sure vw must have revised most if not all the flaws that the 1.9 had, as these are later engines.

Servicing/maintenance costs should still be around the same..

If u would like to dig in further, read through the tdi forums. Alot of people there state the differences and did conversions between the PD engines. Some good threads there.

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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Ashveer03 »

Wow that quote attempt was a total fail

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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by GremlinCCS »

Servicing cost are around the same on my 2.0 against my 1.9

Funny enough the 2.0 turbo are cheaper than the 1.9, or I just bought at the wrong places.

Most of everything are the same around the engine, internals will obviously be a bit different to allow for the 0.1 extra L.
Biggest change are in the head as it's a 16v supposed to the 8v so almost everything here are different.

Power difference between them are very noticeable. They claimed the 2.0 are more fuel efficient, I don't find that but then mines still being fine tuned on the ECU and aren't 100 yet.

But maintenance wise they are about same cost.
Repair wise they are around the same cost
Engine rebuilt the are more costly as they do have more parts.

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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Whipme »

With my Golf 1.9TDI I had to replace the injector wiring harness at around 300k km. It sits under the tappet cover exposed to oil and heat and goes brittle. It showed up as an injector misfiring, went into full retard mode but it was easy and cheap to fix. I had a dead/dying aircon that came back to life with a regas but really did need a compressor replacement. And I had my turbo replaced at 275k km. Other than that it was smooth sailing and cheap and reliable. No white or blue smoke, no out of the ordinary vibrations.
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by panic-mechanic »

Have a 2l tdi audi. It runs around 4.7l/100 at 120. Averages around 1100 km on a tank in normal city mix driving. No more expensive to service than the 1.9.
Yes turbo is cheaper to replace atbaround r8500 brand new.
Timing belt prices pretty similar.
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by Neuk »

panic-mechanic wrote:Ok so I can see we have to revert to show and tell.

1) vw VE engine . Fuel pump clearly visible in the foreground Pipes from there to each injector thus there is no fuel 'RAIL; as such
It uses either suction of the pump to pull from the tank. The amount of fuel injected is controlled by how much fuel the pump allows out.
Injection pressure around 160 to 200 bar. No electronic connection visible on the injectors except on no3 which is a needle lift sensor. Injectors are visible outside the engine.

*snip*

2) PD engine. No rail no fuel pipe nothing of the high pressure fueling system visible outside of the engine. It uses a unit injector which is pressed by the camshaft hence it is all contained under the tappet cover. there is a lift pump which provides the fuel to a tandem pump ( one half does vacuum and one half does pressure. From the tandem pump(supplies around 500 bar) it goes to the injector where it gets compressed to final injection pressure(just under 2000 bar). Fuelling quantity is electronically controlled by a timed spray. No injector is visible nor electronic connector.

*snip*

3) Common rail. there is a fuel rail. similar to petrol fuel injection engines. It is externally visible. On some of them more clearly than others. Then a pipe to each injector from the 'RAIL' . Fuel is supplied by a lift pump in the tank to centrally driven high pressure pump and fuelling is also electronically controlled via a PIEZO injector. Rail pressure is in the vicinity of 1600 to 1800 BAR. Electronic connection to each injector similar to petrol fuel injection

*snip*
Thanks panic :cool:
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Roxy: 2015 VW Golf R
Vagon: 2005 Audi B6 A4 1.8T (140kw) Avant
Project XXXX: 1967 VW Type 3 Variant (Squareback)
Project Betty: 2005 Polo 1.9 TDI (PD130) Sportline
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Re: What to look for when buying high mileage 1.9TDI?

Post by ThatBloke »

Thanks for the info chaps.

There's a 2002 1.8T Avant going for R55k, 260,000km though, probably not as reliable as the diesel with that kind of mileage?

I'm sold on the diesel considering the power relative to the frugal fuel economy but I need a vehicle asap, granted from past experience I know it's almost always better to wait than take whatever is available
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